Solidarity with Palestine

[cremeegg]

Gosh, I wonder. It is a bit odd alright. Perhaps there's something unique and special about the state of Israel that makes it a one of a kind nation. Some characteristic that's not shared by any of the other 200 odd states in the world. Whatever could it be? What is it about Israel's inhabitants that attracts so much negative comment? Would there be a history of singling out that type of people for special adverse treatment, at all?

Puzzling eh?

There are a number of things that are 'unique and special' ( or at least highly unusual) about the state of Israel that makes it a one of a kind nation.

1. It came into being based on a decision of the UN

On 29 November 1947, the General Assembly passed Resolution 181 (commonly known as the UN Partition Plan for Palestine) which recommended the adoption and implementation of a slightly modified version of the UNSCOP majority Partition Plan, by 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions, achieving the required two-thirds majority.[6] The resolution was rejected by the Palestinian Arabs; and all members of the Arab League voted against. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_United_Nations#UN_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine

2. Its laws grant and deny citizenship based on ethnic/religious background

3. It has property laws based on ethnic/religious background

4. Its economically dependant on western aid, thereby we as westerners are implicated in its achievements and failures.

5. It administers significant territory/population as an occupying force.


Oh and of course the key point it was brought into being to make amends for the Holocaust and the Nazi's treatment of the Jews, at the expense not of the Nazis nor the Germans but of the Palestinians.

 

[WolfeTone]

Govt recognises 'de facto' annexing of Palestinian land

I think the headline maybe inaccurate. I think it was a unanimous decision by the Dáil.
Broadly symbolic, and mostly posturing, but nevertheless a scratch across the veneer of Israeli govt apartheid and annexation.
A good day for Ireland, a day of hope for Palestine.

 

[Sister Sara]

Mackelmore statement following removal from Ed Sheeran tour

Very well said. Eloquent and respectful.

So much for the land of 'the free' and the much vaunted 1st amendment for 'freedom of speech'.

This is more evidence that America is captured by a billionaire class, censorship - corruption in politics, political assassinations, are all part of the 'norm' of USA now.

You would think that under US constitutional protections Mackelmore and Sheeran could sue the backside off those that delivered ultimatums on who can perform? It appears they have acquiesed to the demands of billionaires on account of the utterance of words like "Free Palestine".

I have no desire to see Israeli athletes or artists denied their opportunity to represent their country in their respective fields but as Ed Miliband referred to last week, British (and otherwise Western 'values') application of international laws and practices must be consistent, and seen to be consistent. Otherwise trust and reputation will evaporate.

Irish soccer athletes, and Eurovision participants are denied their opportunity to play in front of their home crowd and compete on account of the continued participation of Israel, a country whose leaders are cited for carrying out a genocide and ethnic cleansing.

 

[Sister Sara]

'We are failing' - McEntee questions EU's Israel response

Well said Minister, credibility of EU "is gone" regarding its response to the actions of the Israeli government in the occupied Palestinian territories.

It's not lost on me that she is saying this in New York ahead of UN General Assembly, in the days after that saw Ed Sheerans tour placed in jeopardy by an elitist class. I feel sorry that Sheeran was put in this position by his billionaire "friend", but I don't sympathise with him for the direction he took. In my opinion, he should have stood up for the values of US, for freedom of speech, and told the billionaires where to go.

The important thing is that the backlash and polarization of opinion demonstrated in US and abroad has begun to register with the politicians that this issue is not going away any time soon.

 

[Sister Sara]

Over 160 Irish sportspeople sign open letter asking ROI players to boycott Israel fixtures

Just seeing this now. This turns up the pressure.

It is a horrible position for our players to be in. It is the consequence of governing bodies, the EU and UEFA in particular, failing to act on its own rules.

 

[JoeRoberts]

feel sorry that Sheeran was put in this position by his billionaire "friend"

He should have checked out his support acts properly and ensured a clause in the contract that there would be no political statements. Too many music acts jumping on bandwagons to get their name in lights.
I went to some Culture night music events and it was great to listen to pure music .

 

[Sister Sara]

Too many music acts jumping on bandwagons to get their name in lights.

It tends to happen when there is a political vacuum of inaction. The famine in Ethiopia in the 1980's was propelled to the conscience of the people of the world in no small part by musicians. The campaign against apartheid South Africa, the same.

There was an outpouring of solidarity for Ukrainians following the Russian invasion, rightly, the political class acted promptly to provide refuge, sanctions, exclusion etc against Russia, hence no significant cultural protest movement.

As McEntee has said, EU credibility is gone on this matter - if political institutions do not act, then it is left to the people to mobilise in whatever way they can. Music, sport, are to the forefront of high profile avenues to do that.

 

[Leper]

I’m very easy on all this. I’ve seen media interviews with Bob Geldoff regarding famine(s) in Africa. He has stated on occasions much of the aid inspired by the musicians never got through to the people who needed it. The different military bodies intercepted food aid etc and what many of us were doing was supporting military conflicts instead of feeding the starved. There’s something wrong somewhere. I often wonder what percentage of aid actually made its way to those who needed it?

Does the fact that Rep of Ireland playing Israel in a soccer game mean anything one way or the other? I don’t think so. To any dislodged person in Gaza, I bet it doesn’t matter a whit. Even to me it doesn’t mean much.

Cast your mind back to 1845/1850 to the Great Hunger in Ireland. How much aid made its way from the Middle East to Ireland?

 

[JoeRoberts]

The campaign against apartheid South Africa, the same.

An altogether easy problem to solve when compared to Palestine. Not even comparable and would have happened anyway eventually. Just like civil rights in NI would have arrived with membership of the EEC.

 

[Sister Sara]

An altogether easy problem to solve when compared to Palestine. Not even comparable and would have happened anyway eventually. Just like civil rights in NI would have arrived with membership of the EEC.

I bow to your superior insights on these matters.

Fancy a game of Snap?

 

[Purple]

I bow to your superior insights on these matters.

I think that @JoeRoberts makes a fair point. The situation in the Middle East is far more complex than either Northern Ireland or South Africa and there was an inevitability about the demise of both oppressive structures.

 

[Purple]

Does the fact that Rep of Ireland playing Israel in a soccer game mean anything one way or the other?

Not in the greater scheme of things but it does signal where we position ourselves as a society on issues of injustice... or at least a small and select group of issues of injustice.
We ignore most of them completely and there are others that many of our citizens actively participate in. My issue is the very selective nature of our indignation; we'll play plenty of other teams from the Middle East who kill and have killed far more innocent people that Israel.

I don’t think so. To any dislodged person in Gaza, I bet it doesn’t matter a whit. Even to me it doesn’t mean much.

Some may care but it will definitely have no material impact on them.

 

[Purple]

The title of this thread is "Solidarity with Palestine" but what that means is ill defined and quite a recent political and national identity. It wasn't until that late 19th Century that a Palestinian identity began to emerge as a National identity, as opposed to Syrian or just Islamic. That doesn't take away from the plight or the rights of the people in the area but we should be careful not to view historic identity through the prism of national identity. Such notions date from the Enlightenment but only really became a thing in the late 18th Century with the French and American Revolutions. As Nations Israel was founded in May 1948, Syria in 1945/1946, Jordan in May 1946, Iraq 1932 and Iran in 1935. The UAE, in it's various forms, dates from the 1970's. If they had all been Nations, in the modern meaning of the word, dating back into antiquity then there wouldn't be so much conflict in the area.
Solidarity with Palestine is picking one particularly oppressed and damaged group out of the post-imperial, post-colonial and post-cold war stew that is the Middle East.
God, Oil, and Suez and all the great powers playing their great games.

​

 

[Ceist Beag]

He should have checked out his support acts properly and ensured a clause in the contract that there would be no political statements.

100% disagree with this. Artists speaking out about humanity concerns has always been and should always be appreciated and supported. Trying to muzzle anyone like this is wrong and the focus should have been on Kraft, not Sheeran. If this type of thing is tolerated and accepted, where does it end. Sponsors of movies get to dictate who should be allowed to act in it based on their preference? Donators to museums or art galleries get to choose what parts they don't agree with and have them removed?
I thought we were moving away from censorship. The behaviour of Kraft belongs in the dark ages.

 

[Sister Sara]

I think that @JoeRoberts makes a fair point.

I don't think he makes a fair point at all. His initial point was to criticise musicians jumping on band wagons to get their name in lights. I merely pointed out 2 moments in recent history, out of many, where musicians banded together to highlight failings at a political level and had some significant degree of impact on the politicians. Once that was pointed out he pivoted to the varying complexities of different conflicts. So, no, I don't accept it was a fair point at all.

 

[Purple]

I don't think he makes a fair point at all. His initial point was to criticise musicians jumping on band wagons to get their name in lights. I merely pointed out 2 moments in recent history, out of many, where musicians banded together to highlight failings at a political level and had some significant degree of impact on the politicians. Once that was pointed out he pivoted to the varying complexities of different conflicts. So, no, I don't accept it was a fair point at all.

I'm a fan of musicians being political and having causes. I may be the only Irish person who thinks Bono is great.

I also think that Norther Ireland and South Africa were altogether easier problems to solve when compared to Palestine and that there was an inevitability about the resolution of both of them.

 

[Sister Sara]

He has stated on occasions much of the aid inspired by the musicians never got through to the people who needed it. The different military bodies intercepted food aid

Cast your mind back to 1845/1850 to the Great Hunger in Ireland. How much aid made its way from the Middle East to Ireland?

I think interventions in a war zone were certainly an issue for food and aid getting to the civilian population. Nevertheless, the impact it had on the political class was to intervene and try bring about the end of bloody civil war.

My recollection was the Sultan Abul mehad (?) initially offered £10,000 to assist with famine relief but the British intervened and requested a reduction to £1,000 as they considered it would embarrass their Queen who had provided £2,000.

 

[Sister Sara]

The title of this thread is "Solidarity with Palestine" but what that means is ill defined and quite a recent political and national identity.

The title is reference to the people who identify as Palestinian being continually bombarded, murdered (during a ceasefire), displaced, displaced again, whose lands and homes are being continually destroyed, by a political leadership in Israel whose cabinet members are cited by the international community as having committed war crimes.

If an Irish political leader was citied for war crimes, crimes against humanity by the international community, would we tolerate their continued presence in government? If we did, I think it would show that our society has descended into a very dark place.

The topic isn't one of a history lesson as yes it is far too complex and has no chance of being resolved on the pages of AAM.

What may be resolved, and reading between the lines of what McEntee has said, following on from what the British government has said, along with the likes of Hilary Clinton has said publicly about Netenyahu, along with a significant body of Israeli media and population, I personnally think that there is now a concerted effort to get Netehyahu and his terrorist cabinet out of government.

 

[JoeRoberts]

Artists speaking out about humanity concerns has always been and should always be appreciated and supported

The rapper guy shouted "free palestine". Great meaningless idiotic phrase being bandied about by attention seeking idiots.

 

[Purple]

If an Irish political leader was citied for war crimes, crimes against humanity by the international community, would we tolerate their continued presence in government? If we did, I think it would show that our society has descended into a very dark place.

The term Crimes Against Humanity was not a thing when this Nation was founded but it is without doubt that the Provisional Government committed what are not called War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity in 1922 so yes, we did and it did indeed show that our society had descended into a very dark place.