Solidarity with Palestine

The big surprise out of the FlyDubai incident is how the UAE and Israel are thick as thieves. In that troubled region self preservation dominates. Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran threatens the existence of Israel and their fellow Arab Muslims alike. But we at a remote distance occupy the high moral ground with our oxygen masks and rail against playing football with them.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
Hamas/Hezbullah/ Iran threatens the existence of Israel
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For the avoidance of doubt, any realistic and prospective threat to the existence of Israel should be dealt with accordingly. I think Hamas and Hezbollah should be designated as proscribed terrorist organisations. They should disarm and stand down. Until then we, Ireland, EU and civil nations of the world that support international law should suspend all economic trade with Hamas and Hezbollah. Failing that, neither Hamas nor Hezbollah should be allowed submit representatives into our sporting and cultural events such as Eurovision and UEFA Nations League. They should be treated as pariahs. What say you?

I differ a little when it comes to Iran and Israel as both are officially recognised sovereign states of the United Nations. I do think, considering Irans links to Hezbollah that lead, in part, to political and economic sanctions are valid.
Considering Israels links to the illegal settlers in West Bank (the US Ambassador to Israel, Huckabee, described the settlers as terrorists) I think that political and economic sanctions of an equivalent nature should be applied to Israel. What say you?

Considering the forced displacement and genocidal acts being committed by Israel against the population of Gaza the international community should act accordingly against those that have warrants issued for their arrest. What say you?

In the absence of the international community acting accordingly the prospect of the civilian population acting and taking actions into their own hands in whatever way they may increases. I don't think it should happen but I do think it is human nature.

I see the Finnish government has survived a vote of no confidence after a disputed visit by their defence minister to Israel and lack of engagement with Palestinian representatives.

The salient point is, these things should not be occurring if our so-called 'Western values' were being upheld and applied.

Israel's existence and future is secured. Preventing its slide into an autocracy is not secured. Don't take my word for it, listen to what sections of the Israeli media are saying.
 
I saw the press conference for Ireland v Israel. The Israeli journalists asking some unhinged questions to the Irish management about Irelands "support" for the FlyDubai attack. :rolleyes:

This is the problem, more and more people are stirring up radical and extremist views, left and right, and if its not nipped in the bud (through democratic checks and balances, law and order, authority etc) its only going to get more vitriolic.

Left or Right, common sense needs to prevail. Thats the job of the politicians and they are failing,
 
@Sister Sara
The point I was making is that our very selective moral outrage against Israel is in stark contrast to the attitude of an Arab Muslim state that actually feels the same threats.

“Gemini” said:
Whether the United Arab Emirates (UAE) is an "ally" of Israel depends on how you define the term: legally, they are formal diplomatic and trade partners rather than treaty-bound military allies, though in practice, they share a deep strategic and defense alignment.

1. The Legal and Diplomatic Reality​

  • The Abraham Accords (2020): The UAE formally normalized diplomatic relations with Israel under the U.S.-brokered Abraham Accords. This established full embassy exchanges, direct flights, and reciprocal visa-free travel.
  • Free Trade: In 2022, the UAE signed a comprehensive Free Trade Agreement with Israel—making it Israel's first major free trade deal with an Arab nation. Bilateral trade, technology, and energy partnerships expanded rapidly.
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Sister Sara said:
For the avoidance of doubt, any realistic and prospective threat to the existence of Israel should be dealt with accordingly…
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I agree with most of that post though I think that the current Israeli government is more of a threat to Israel’s existence than Hamas. Israel, for all its faults, is a liberal democracy surrounded by autocratic and totalitarian states. It is the only country in the region that respects the rights of LGBT people, where there is a free Press, and it is the only country where its Palestinian population have a democratic vote. The fundamentalists and opportunists running the country are destroying that.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
The point I was making is that our very selective moral outrage against Israel is in stark contrast to the attitude of an Arab Muslim state that actually feels the same threats.
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And the point I'm making (or at least trying to) is that regardless of the 'selective moral outrage' the fact is, that the conflict in Palestine has penetrated social discourse and cohesion. Not just here, but in Europe, US and further afield.

It was mentioned by one leader at UN Assembly that there are currently 65 armed conflicts occurring in the world. I don't know how accurate that is but I'd be doing well to think of more than 5 offhand.

Some say Palestine/Israel gets more attention because of anti-semitism, or because many Israeli's are white. I think that's nonsense. There is an easily identifiable correlation between the surge in solidarity with Palestinians over the last two years and with the policies and actions of the Israeli government and IDF in response to Hamas attack on Oct 7th.

The conflict has being going for near 80yrs. Its proximity in the Middle East, to worlds energy supplies, and as the epicentre of Christianty, Islam and Judasim are the reasons.

I honestly don't know why the tribal and anti-government factions in Libya or Sudan or Colombia etc do not receive as much attention. Maybe its because US and European governments have little influence over those armed factions?

Whereas with Israel, I'm at least of the impression that US and European governments could influence the situation to a far greater extent than they currently do to stop the slaughter.
 
@Sister Sara Well, we are going over old ground. The new factor that came as a surprise to me was to learn that the UAE was such a supporter of Israel.
Sister Sara said:
Whereas with Israel, I'm at least of the impression that US and European governments could influence the situation to a far greater extent than they currently do to stop the slaughter.
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Again the fact that Ireland is such an outlier in its obsession with Israeli actions requires an explanation. Has there been any public protest against exporting alumina to the Russian war machine?
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
Again the fact that Ireland is such an outlier in its obsession with Israeli actions requires an explanation.
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The first explanation is to debunk the perception that Ireland is an outlier.
It was widely reported that over 70 delegations walked out of UN Assembly conference as Netanyahu began his speech. Ireland was not one of them.

Duke of Marmalade said:
Has there been any public protest against exporting alumina to the Russian war machine?
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I don't know, I have not heard. There is a thread on that topic here https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/ireland-has-a-serious-russia-problem.244206/

Perhaps the public see the government acting in condemning Russia, providing refuge to Ukrainians to the status of treating them as de facto EU citizens, providing humanitarian and medical supports to Ukraine etc as at least some form of action to try combat Russia's aggression.

Perhaps the public see the derisory response of their governments to what Israel is doing is what is prompting them to protest?
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
You would have thought that the Israelis, given their history, would be more efficient at this genocide racket.
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Careful now Duke, you wouldn't want it to be said of you that you were being anti-semitic?

JoeRoberts said:
Have Hamas decomissioned yet ?
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I don't purport to be an expert on these matters but a lot of your comments and questions are easily answerable with doing a quick internet search for yourself. A decommissioning offer and pledge to withdraw from governance upon the establishment of a Palestinian state has been on the table from Hamas for sometime.

Unfortunately the current Israeli administration have vowed that a Palestinian state will never be established.

The last Israeli Prime Minister that tried in meaningful way to settle the dispute was assassinated by right-wing Jewish extremist opposed to the peace agreement and in line with current Minister of National Security Ben Givr who had threatened Rabins life on live TV shortly before the killing.

Givr is an extremist racist with eight convictions of crimes including incitement to racism and support for, as well as possession of propaganda of, a terrorist organization. who openly calls for the murder of Arabs. His ideology is of Kahanism, and the political Kach party is actually outlawed in Israel.

Wiki - Kahanism's central claim is that the vast majority of the Arabs of Israel are and will continue to be enemies of Jews and Israel itself, and that a Jewish theocratic state, governed by Halakha law, absent of a voting non-Jewish population that includes Israel, Palestine, areas of modern-day Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, should be created.[18]

The guy is a nutter. He is in government. There is no way we would tolerate such a person being in government here. If we did, I would suggest that our society had descended to a dark place. We had our own conflict and the one central tenet to the resolution was people convicted of or supporting acts of terrorism could not participate.

Our "Western values" are being debased, ridiculed, and basically torn to shreds with what this Israeli government are doing and the world has woken up to it.

Mostly woken up I should say, there are still a significant portion who have their heads buried in the sand.
 
Sister Sara said:
Our "Western values" are being debased, ridiculed, and basically torn to shreds with what this Israeli government are doing and the world has woken up to it.
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You know better than to talk about Western Values and the developed world's a la carte attitude to upholding them.
 
Sister Sara said:
honestly don't know why the tribal and anti-government factions in Libya or Sudan or Colombia etc do not receive as much attention.
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Maybe because when white people are fighting it's political but when black and brown people are fighting for the same sorts of reasons we call it tribal, as if such conflicts are inevitable.

It's funny how there are only tribal conflicts in countries that were colonised by European Powers. By the measure we use to ascribe such terms Israel-Palestine is a tribal conflict, as is Northern Ireland.
 
Ex-EU officials call for sanctions over Israeli E1 project

"More than 500 former EU prime ministers, diplomats and senior officials have called on the bloc to impose sanctions on those involved in a new Israeli settlement construction project in the West Bank which critics say will thwart the possibility of a two-state solution.

The statement singles out Germany and Italy as two member states which have vetoed tougher action against Israel at EU level, saying they are now "complicit" in blocking the two-state solution."

I cannot find a link to the actual statement.

Leo Varadkar says Israel should be expelled from UEFA

‘UEFA should not have allowed Israel to play. They should be expelled from UEFA, in my view,’ he said. ‘I don’t think they should even be in UEFA.

‘They’re neither a European country nor a country of European values, so I don’t even think they should be in UEFA at all, or in Eurovision for that matter.’ - Varadkar.

The point of the two links above is to continue to highlight the political and social fractures that are emerging in Ireland and Europe as a result of the actions of Israeli government and its military, IDF.
 
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National Demonstration for Palestine: Three Years of Gaza Genocide

Sat, 10 October, 13:00 Assemble at the Garden of Remembrance, Parnell Square, Dublin 1 .​

If you cant make that maybe there is an event closer to you
Full listing of current events for anyone interested in participating.

This is gone beyond a left/right issue. Many of the people attending these events were part of the outpouring of solidarity shown for Ukraine after Russia's illegal invasion.
They saw authorities act, EU, US and UK united in condemnation, imposition of sanctions, military and humanitarian supplies for Ukraine etc.

Collective punishment is being imposed on people of Gaza, most were not even born when Hamas took control.
Not only have those in authority failed to act, they continue to supply Israel with weapons of mass destruction,

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-prepares-28bn-weapons-sale-israel-funded-taxpayers-report (US prepares $2.8bn weapons sale, funded by taxpayers, to Israel)
"The potential transfer of controversial 2,000-pound munition is largest single sale in recent years".

US voters, in no small part, voted Trump in to stop foreign wars and foreign interventions.

What will Israel do with the consignment of $2.8bn worth of 2,000-pound munitions?
 
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