UN - Famine in Gaza

All UNSC members bar US say Gaza is man made crisis

This hits to the heart of the problem.

The US is an empire that extends its might and influence too far and wide. They are unaccountable for anything and responsible for so much.

*in case anyone wades in with that im anti-US, I love US, its people, its cities, scenery, innovation, culture (most of it) etc.

It is a country, in my opinion, whose government and political system is subservient to its Industrial Military Complex.

Eisenhower warned his people about this.

General Smedley Butler alerted his people to this.

JFK tried for his people to challenge it.

It is, by any definition, a nation that is in the grip of right-wing corporate and military fascists. The rendering rudderless of the international rules order of ICC, its prosecutors, and the UN Security Council (notwithstanding Russia is also another undesired monolith empire).

The biggest threat to European harmony is coming from US, UK(Brexiteers haven't gone away ye know) and Israel*

*that is just opinion.
 
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Somewhat off-topic but linked in the round I'd say.

France orders hospitals to be ready for war in six months time

Just a drill, apparently. Nothing to see here, other than perhaps Putins threat that Western allied troops placed in Ukraine are legitimate targets.

Probably just a coincidence?

What has it to do with Palestine? - well one theory may be that any semblence of an international rules based order now lies in shreds and Palestinians living in Gaza now face imminent extermination or exile.
 
Sister Sara said:
any semblence of an international rules based order now lies in shreds and Palestinians living in Gaza now face imminent extermination or exile.
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It only ever existed as long as the US played along with it as they have the most powerful military. That kept China and Russia etc in check. Now China is too powerful to control like that and the US is no longer doing the job of world policeman so Russia etc can do what they want. That's why the EU has to be able to defend itself. Without that ability our freedom exists only at the whim of dictators, despots and mad men. To think otherwise is utterly naive.
 
@Purple. The US is basically bankrolling the Ukrainian war effort against Russia.
Russia cannot even conquer its nearest neighbour Ukraine. China is threatening no-one militarily. It has a territorial claim over Taiwan but has not acted on it. Nobody is attacking the EU outside of the US attack on German Nord Stream pipeline.

US is still acting as world's policeman, blowing up national infrastructure of its allies, and the genocide in Gaza could not happen without the US complicit support.

If the US were to draw-back to behind its own borders, or at least to a pre-9/11 position, the world would calm down and be a safer place.
 
Lots of qualifications in that there Spanish announcement of changes to their laws. Fuel destined for the IDF is embargoed - why not just fuel or is some fuel stamped "IDF use only"? Similarly with individuals involved in genocide flying through Spanish airspace - do those individuals or "state aircraft" come with branding that states "We starve and murder innocent civilians and children?" Why not just an outright ban on all Israeli aircraft and ships from Spanish airspace and territorial waters? Loads of get out of jail free cards for the Spanish, window dressing only in those "nine measures", nothing substantive, I'm afraid.
 
mathepac said:
Lots of qualifications in that there Spanish announcement of changes to their laws. Fuel destined for the IDF is embargoed - why not just fuel or is some fuel stamped "IDF use only"? Similarly with individuals involved in genocide flying through Spanish airspace - do those individuals or "state aircraft" come with branding that states "We starve and murder innocent civilians and children?" Why not just an outright ban on all Israeli aircraft and ships from Spanish airspace and territorial waters? Loads of get out of jail free cards for the Spanish, window dressing only in those "nine measures", nothing substantive, I'm afraid.
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Where does that stop?

The Chinese are killing more Uyghurs than the number of Palestinians being killed by the Israelis.
The UAE and Egypt and killing and starving more Sudanese than the number of Palestinians being killed by the Israelis.

Yesterday around 60 people were killed as a funeral in North Kivu in the DRC by an ISIS affiliated terrorist group. Most were hacked to death with machetes while the rest were shot. Just imagine the international coverage that would have received if the victims were white or the perpetrators were backed by America or Israel.

What's happening in Gaza is appalling and Israels actions are inexcusable but it's not the biggest or the most bloody current conflict. Not by a long shot. Where are the calls for sanctions on all of the other protagonists?
 
Sister Sara said:
The US is basically bankrolling the Ukrainian war effort against Russia.
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You make it sound like Ukraine is the aggressor! Russia invaded Ukraine under the false pretence of NATO expansion (Russia didn't seem to mind Sweden and Norway joining NATO).

Sister Sara said:
Russia cannot even conquer its nearest neighbour Ukraine.
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Kind of embarrassing for Russia...without the treat of nukes, they're a basket case!

Sister Sara said:
China is threatening no-one militarily.
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Not yet, but they are ramping up their military, especially regarding nuclear-powered submarines.

Sister Sara said:
It has a territorial claim over Taiwan
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The citizens of sovereign Taiwan would beg to differ over this claim.

Sister Sara said:
Nobody is attacking the EU outside of the US attack on German Nord Stream pipeline
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Sister Sara said:
US is still acting as world's policeman, blowing up national infrastructure of its allies, and the genocide in Gaza could not happen without the US complicit support.
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I beg to differ. Isreal has done it's own thing pretty much, and only informing the US at the last minute. Yesterday they tried to kill Hamas leaders by launching missiles into DOHA, a regional ally of USA.

Sister Sara said:
If the US were to draw-back to behind its own borders, or at least to a pre-9/11 position, the world would calm down and be a safer place.
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You mean a world with ISIS, an expansionist Russia and China?
 
Firefly said:
You make it sound like Ukraine is the aggressor!
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Not sure how you came to that perspective? I never mentioned Ukraine as being the aggressor.
Firefly said:
Kind of embarrassing for Russia...without the treat of nukes, they're a basket case!
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That is my point exactly.
Firefly said:
Not yet, but they are ramping up their military, especially regarding nuclear-powered submarines.
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True, but from where Im standing Trump has demanded that Europe ramp up its military too. The US is already light-years ahead of everyone else for its military, yet I don't detect the same concern.
Firefly said:
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That was convenient timing for you! - Except it wasnt an attack on an EU member state, more a violition of EU member airspace.
I remember when Russia violated Irish space, and Israel too...and sure the Brits 'defend' our airspace and our waters...why is there not the same alarmist response when Irish airspace is violated?

Why not the same alarm when supposed "allies" blow up critical infrastructure of a EU member state?

I do think that what Russia did here was certainly a provocation. But so is flying war jets near Shannon airport (an obvious target for hosting US military). Listening to Simon Harris about what happened in Poland "has to be a wake-up call for the West", yet I cant recall any political reaction when https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/0320/1123836-russian-military-aircraft-bombers-ireland/ ?

France has ordered its hospitals to prepare for war. Whichever way, NATO members want NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine.

We are being talked into more, and more, war.



Firefly said:
Isreal has done it's own thing pretty much, and only informing the US at the last minute. Yesterday they tried to kill Hamas leaders by launching missiles into DOHA, a regional ally of USA.
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Israel has received some $22bn in direct military aid from the US and the US could stop the genocide in Gaza in an instant. It chooses not. And then is repaid by the genocidal maniacs in charge of Israel with attacks in DOHA.
With 'friends' like this....

Firefly said:
You mean a world with ISIS
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Is this the ISIS that didnt exist pre-9/11? Is this the ISIS that is an extremist Islamic terror organisation, that has never attacked Israel once but rather other Muslims?
Is this the same ISIS that now has its former member, Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, also former Al-Qaeda and now under the name of Ahmad al-Sharaa, in position as leader of Syria and now shaking hands with British government ministers?

1757524511644.webp1757524561253.webp The US and UK have put ISIS in charge of Syria.
 
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mathepac said:
Loads of get out of jail free cards for the Spanish, window dressing only in those "nine measures", nothing substantive, I'm afraid.
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Fair points mathepac, but perhaps the dominio effect is starting to take hold

Ex-EU ambassadors and officials call for immediate suspension of EU-Israel agreement

"Over 300 former EU and member state ambassadors, as well as former EU officials, have written a joint letter calling on the EU to immediately suspend the EU-Israel Association Agreement and to impose targeted sanctions on members of the Israeli government.

The letter, to the EU institutions and leaders of the 27 member states, also calls on the 13 member states which have not yet done so to join 147 UN members in recognising the State of Palestine."
Von der Leyen proposes bolder E.U. sanctions against Israel over the war in Gaza

  • EU Commission President von der Leyen broke with her pro-Israel stance, proposing sanctions and partial trade suspension over Gaza war.
  • The measures include freezing $37.5 million in bilateral support and sanctioning far-right Israeli officials and West Bank settlers.
  • The 27-nation EU remains split on Gaza policy, making approval of the sanctions uncertain despite mounting criticism.
In bold, this is what I mean that the genocide in Gaza may threaten the cohesion of Europe. Russia will be delighted. The US can stop Israel, but it won't. So much for the US being an ally of Europe.
 
Sister Sara said:
True, but from where Im standing Trump has demanded that Europe ramp up its military too.
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Looking at the Russian invasion of Ukraine and "violition of EU member airspace" as you put it, I'm glad he did.

Sister Sara said:
Whichever way, NATO members want NATO boots on the ground in Ukraine.
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To protect their territory from unwarranted Russian aggression.

Sister Sara said:
We are being talked into more, and more, war.
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All as a response of unwarranted Russian aggression.
 
Firefly said:
Looking at the Russian invasion of Ukraine and "violation of EU member airspace" as you put it, I'm glad he did.
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Corrected typo.

Thats fine. But im more interested in diplomatic engagements that defuse the situation rather than ramp up militarisation. History is clear, it doesnt end well.
Putin is an imperialist wanting to enhance and restore the Russian Empire. However, as you have pointed out, as an economy it is no larger than Italy.
Ukraine making soundings and being feted by NATO was a step too far from his perspective. No different if Cuba, or Mexico, were to put Russian military bases on their territory - the US wouldnt countenance it.
A simple resolution to this would have been an international treaty ensuring Ukraine would never join NATO and forever remain military neutral. Russia would have to stay behind its lines, NATO to stay behind its lines. Win-win for all.

Firefly said:
All as a response of unwarranted Russian aggression.
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And can I ask, are you ever concerned of unwarranted Western (namely US) aggression and the impact it is having in international affairs?

Blowing up infrastructure of EU member states?
Facilitating a genocide in Gaza?
Illegal invasion of Iraq?
Placing ISIS leader in charge of Syria?
Facilitating attacks on allies engaged in diplomatic negotiations to try resolve conflict?

When non-aligned states to the Western alliance see what is done, with near impunity, why wouldn't they ramp their military and move to forcefully protect their own interests?
 
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Sister Sara said:
Ukraine making soundings and being feted by NATO was a step too far from his perspective.
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Why not the same action against Finland or Sweden since they actually joined NATO? It doesn't make sense and I think this is just a smoke screen Putin is using.

Sister Sara said:
A simple resolution to this would have been an international treaty ensuring Ukraine would never join NATO and forever remain military neutral.
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As above, joining NATO was not the reason Putin invaded Ukraine in my opinion. This all started with the Revolution of Dignity in Feb 2015 when the Russian puppet Viktor Yanukovych got his marching orders. Putin swiftly annexed Crimea and, in my opinion, began plotting his invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine is a soverign country and if they wish to align themselves with the EU rather than Russia they should be allowed to. Ditto joining the defensive organisation known as NATO
 
Sister Sara said:
And can I ask, are you ever concerned of unwarranted Western (namely US) aggression
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Of course, but acting selfishly, the Russians, with their unwarranted invasion of Ukraine and their "violition" of Polish airspace, are moving westwards.
 
Firefly said:
Why not the same action against Finland or Sweden since they actually joined NATO? It doesn't make sense and I think this is just a smoke screen Putin is using.
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Thats a very good question and one that I do not have the answer too. So I can only assume it doesn't have the military capability to do so. Evidenced by its quagmire invasion of Ukraine.

NATO has 32 members of which Russia has never invaded any. Ukraine is not a member but has been aligned to NATO for some period

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

Ultimately, I assume that Russia sees Ukraine entering NATO as being a fundamental threat to its own security and regional dominance. A red-line, if you will. I think this is universally understood?

Ergo, it was naive of the Zelensky presidency to approve Ukraine's National Security Strategy with the aim of joining NATO in 2020.

I'm not disputing Ukraine's right to join NATO no more than the right of Mexico to align with Russia should it wish to.

Im simply considering the naivety of doing this considering the prospective consequences.

Ukraine is now a basket-case economy (as well as being highly corrupt), its population has fallen by some 5 million, its military heavily weakened, many of its cities and town reduced to near rubble and now wholly dependent on the US and EU bank-rolling its war effort.

Seriously, is it worth it? Ukraine's protection from Russian aggression was remaining aligned with, but outside of NATO.

The Zelensky presidency will be seen as a disaster for Ukraine when it is finally finished. Let's hope it doesn't bring disaster to the rest of Europe.
 
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1757607950549.webp

Indeed, @Duke of Marmalade you could be correct.

Somehow, with Europe heavily armed with US military and nuclear capabilities I dont see the same match-off today as the Allies had against the Nazi regime.

Indeed, if Russia ever gets its tank wheels out of the Ukraine mud and recovers from its some 1,000,000 military casualties and counting, then perhaps worth a rethink.

Russia is in no position to dominate Europe militarily. Anything else is just scare-mongering to feed into the war industry.

It was in a great position to provide Europe with sustainable and affordable energy for many decades until our 'allies' decided to blow that arrangement up.
 
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