Ulster UB staff/ex staff

Joefed

New Member
Messages
8
I'm afraid the battle continues. We seem to be dancing around the mulberry bush. I have initiated a few other avenues this week but I'm sure eyes are on this thread so won't go into that as yet but all guns blazing! We will keep fighting...
It's great to see the momentum behind this. I am waiting on the Bank response to the Ombudsman. 20 working days ends on 12th July so might see something next week.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
It's great to see the momentum behind this. I am waiting on the Bank response to the Ombudsman. 20 working days ends on 12th July so might see something next week.
Im slightly ahead of you @Joefed We got our first response last Friday..they were bang on the return date....needless to say a lengthy response is returning to them this week here...get ready to continue to push for what we all know was given back to some!
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
It's great to see the momentum behind this. I am waiting on the Bank response to the Ombudsman. 20 working days ends on 12th July so might see something next week.
@Joefed I meant to say that when you hear back from UB through the FSPO You have 10 working days to respond so perhaps gather your further thoughts together on your perception on things like
Specific T&Cs for your 3%element ( which don't exist ) copy of your instruction and confirmation of moving to the staff rate 3%. Your perception around other staff members who got trackera back and challenging the bank as they are saying they created no expectation that the tracker could be reinstated. The lifetime product is also something they will state so just to anticipate how you will challenge this. Other things to consider if your mortgage is joint and the other person is not staff, their position in this and how they were treated etc
Hope that helps
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
Been there done that responded and received letter back last week. Bank has 20 days to respond...keep fighting it is an utter disgrace...nowhere else would you get it. Just wondering if anyone else was given a terms of business or rules of staff mortgage by post at the time? And if joint account, was the other party advised of same? Because it should have been. It's the biggest contract most people make in their lifetime and the bank fell short I their obligation here.
 

Joefed

New Member
Messages
8
@Joefed I meant to say that when you hear back from UB through the FSPO You have 10 working days to respond so perhaps gather your further thoughts together on your perception on things like
Specific T&Cs for your 3%element ( which don't exist ) copy of your instruction and confirmation of moving to the staff rate 3%. Your perception around other staff members who got trackera back and challenging the bank as they are saying they created no expectation that the tracker could be reinstated. The lifetime product is also something they will state so just to anticipate how you will challenge this. Other things to consider if your mortgage is joint and the other person is not staff, their position in this and how they were treated etc
Hope that helps
That's fantastic advice thank you. Much appreciated.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
Been there done that responded and received letter back last week. Bank has 20 days to respond...keep fighting it is an utter disgrace...nowhere else would you get it. Just wondering if anyone else was given a terms of business or rules of staff mortgage by post at the time? And if joint account, was the other party advised of same? Because it should have been. It's the biggest contract most people make in their lifetime and the bank fell short I their obligation here.
No they are saying that because people proactively asked for the rate they worked on the assumption that they were familiar wiyh the policy....back in 2006, I am certain this didn't exist...they said the policy was available on internal storage systems and head office instructions.....ive asked for proof that they were published there at that point in time. I've also asked for a subject access request. An email instruction to change a product with such longevity and years of implication is not responsible banking without fully ascertaining that both customers on mortgage understand this. Also irresponsible and unfairness is the fact that every one of us ok thjis thread knows that if staff pushed harder or were aggrieved in some way they were given their trackers back...this is where the expectation of us to reinstate trackers has come from....observing poor conduct and internal behaviour. We all can not be wrong on this thread in our understanding!
 

Joefed

New Member
Messages
8
Been there done that responded and received letter back last week. Bank has 20 days to respond...keep fighting it is an utter disgrace...nowhere else would you get it. Just wondering if anyone else was given a terms of business or rules of staff mortgage by post at the time? And if joint account, was the other party advised of same? Because it should have been. It's the biggest contract most people make in their lifetime and the bank fell short I their obligation here.
No they are saying that because people proactively asked for the rate they worked on the assumption that they were familiar wiyh the policy....back in 2006, I am certain this didn't exist...they said the policy was available on internal storage systems and head office instructions.....ive asked for proof that they were published there at that point in time. I've also asked for a subject access request. An email instruction to change a product with such longevity and years of implication is not responsible banking without fully ascertaining that both customers on mortgage understand this. Also irresponsible and unfairness is the fact that every one of us ok thjis thread knows that if staff pushed harder or were aggrieved in some way they were given their trackers back...this is where the expectation of us to reinstate trackers has come from....observing poor conduct and internal behaviour. We all can not be wrong on this thread in our understanding!
The Staff House Loan Terms make no reference to being obliged to remain on a fixed rate nor do they say that you cannot revert to your Tracker rate.

I spent months looking for the terms and after a Subject Access Request I was sent a paper version. There is and I do not think ever was an electronic version which would have been accessible.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
The Staff House Loan Terms make no reference to being obliged to remain on a fixed rate nor do they say that you cannot revert to your Tracker rate.

I spent months looking for the terms and after a Subject Access Request I was sent a paper version. There is and I do not think ever was an electronic version which would have been accessible.
I agree, I was sent a copy of them too but never remember seeing that scheme published or in fact on the intranet ever!!! I have asked for the version that was alive when we availed of the rate as there is no version control or date marked on what was sent to the FSPO and in turn forwarded to us. The process was not robust end of...an unencrypted email is not a full authority,nor is a confirmation of being out on rate signed by a clerical officer sufficient either. The bank had a duty of care to furnish all.parties of the mortgage with all implications of moving from tracker to staff and they did not do this, my belief is that many would not have.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
I agree, I was sent a copy of them too but never remember seeing that scheme published or in fact on the intranet ever!!! I have asked for the version that was alive when we availed of the rate as there is no version control or date marked on what was sent to the FSPO and in turn forwarded to us. The process was not robust end of...an unencrypted email is not a full authority,nor is a confirmation of being out on rate signed by a clerical officer sufficient either. The bank had a duty of care to furnish all.parties of the mortgage with all implications of moving from tracker to staff and they did not do this, my belief is that many would not have.
Yeah it's an interesting one, I'm not sure (and haven't been able to get any confirmation from UB) that we are being looked at as part of their review. Essentially I was on a tracker, when the tracker rate went up to nearly 5% I moved to the staff rate of 3% (for the 190k, the remainder stayed on the tracker rate). At the time I was advised that I would revert to the tracker rate if I were to leave UB. Roll on a few years and I did leave but have remained on the 3% rate. So technically I should have been moved off that rate to either the tracker or an SVR but no I've stayed on the staff rate. I'd imagine there are a few in the same boat-unlike some of their other products e.g. UFirst Gold where straight away they applied the monthly fee once you left, for the mortgages nothing happens. Think there might be a gap in their process. As I said from talking to an AIB staff member they advised that AIB have since reinstated their tracker for the full amount as part of their review and I get the sense that this was one of the contentious BoI issues which the new boss has also moved on (but I might be wrong, speculation on my part). Anyway if I don't get a letter in the near future advising that I am being considered as part of the review I will look to escalate. Interesting times.
Hiya they are also saying now that it is a lifetime product and also it was a term of redundancy that you held what you had!?
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
However I now pay foreign exchange and 14 per month on my ufirst gold account. I clearly did not get to hold what i had only on what benefited the banks bottom line. I was stripped of everything bar my staff mortgage when I took redundancy in 2009.
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
Actually, it goes further than the Ombudsman and High Court. If the Appeals Panel makes a systemic ruling, the bank would have to follow it.

The independence of the Appeals Panels - of both the lender and the Central Bank - was deemed critical for their credibility. As such, the Central Bank cannot intervene in Appeals Panels’ decision making but is monitoring the progress and outcomes from the appeals. The Central Bank also expects lenders to monitor the outcomes of the Appeals Panels and, where necessary, apply outcomes on any system wide issues across their wider customer population where similar customer circumstances arise.
@Shazza80
Am I correct in saying this was the case from your appeal...I know the ruling wasn't upheld by the bank but the appeals panel agreed your case was deemed impacted?
 

Chazza80

Frequent Poster
Messages
71
The bank have said the appeals panel had no business looking at my staff side of the mortgage as they had deemed it not impacted. So its still going back and forth. As I have said previously this was on tracker from the drawdown, no top ups or remortgages. Only staff scheme was ever applied to this. To us it remains and still is one mortgage payment.
 

Homesweethome:)

Registered User
Messages
18
Hi folks, how long does the first response from the FSPO usually take and do they usually look for more info/docs before contacting the bank? I sent off my appeal last week so am quite a bit behind the rest of you but I think I have included everything that they may need! Any further updates on other cases?
 

JMexubbanker

Registered User
Messages
46
Hi folks, how long does the first response from the FSPO usually take and do they usually look for more info/docs before contacting the bank? I sent off my appeal last week so am quite a bit behind the rest of you but I think I have included everything that they may need! Any further updates on other cases?
From memory a couple of weeks...they usually ask for mediation with the bank first and from what I can see the bank are refusing so it goes straight to investigation...at that point you get a chance to send in any further info, comments or thoughts. It took then a further 6 months of waiting but think that was waiting on CBI to conclude and sheer volume. They came back to clarify some points for their own understanding...they cc on all.correspondence and then the process begins....it goes to the bank then who have 20 days to reply and answer the questions that the FSPO puts to them...you get copies of everything then and you have 10 days to come back to respond to their update.
Hope that helps....good luck with your case....I'm hopin the reason this thread has gone quiet is because people are not allowed to discuss their cases and settlements any further....fingers crossed!
Have you requested all of your mortgage related data from the bank....this may also be helpful to you down the road!
 

Homesweethome:)

Registered User
Messages
18
From memory a couple of weeks...they usually ask for mediation with the bank first and from what I can see the bank are refusing so it goes straight to investigation...at that point you get a chance to send in any further info, comments or thoughts. It took then a further 6 months of waiting but think that was waiting on CBI to conclude and sheer volume. They came back to clarify some points for their own understanding...they cc on all.correspondence and then the process begins....it goes to the bank then who have 20 days to reply and answer the questions that the FSPO puts to them...you get copies of everything then and you have 10 days to come back to respond to their update.
Hope that helps....good luck with your case....I'm hopin the reason this thread has gone quiet is because people are not allowed to discuss their cases and settlements any further....fingers crossed!
Have you requested all of your mortgage related data from the bank....this may also be helpful to you down the road!
Many thanks, that really helps. Yes, I requested all mtg info and was advised that it would be with me in 20 working days, needless to say it hasn’t arrived so I will call again tomorrow..
 
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