PTSB PTSB 1 year discounted tracker - they have put me back on the right rate

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meepman

Frequent Poster
I was on the 1 year discounted tracker, offered the options letter after 11 months. Similar to many others on here. I asked to be compensated and for the tracker rate to be put back to what it was when I took out the original loan. I put in the letter that the bank did not state what the discounted tracker was discounted from and that the matter was ambiguous.
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
The option letter would have stated :" your current rate option will expire on..... ". But special condition 9 on the original Letter of Approval said nothing about a rate option expiring. The options letter 11 months in contained a blatent lie.

I have written a 2nd time to the PTSB asking for a clear and specific response on why they they done this. I cannot see how they can defend their position.

This is quite aside from the nonsense of issuing a 12 month discounted rate before "offering" the long term rate a year later which bore no reasonable comparison to the discounted rate
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Hi all,
Just to say that I got a letter from PTSB this week that confirms what they said to me in a phone call in mid October, after phase 2 of CB review. They consider that I am not Impacted, that this is their final statement and l can take it further with the financial ombudsman! Will wait to hear what CB review says in December.

(I had a discounted tracker, that went up to +2.25 instead of +0.8, chose the SVR rate option in the options letter under duress, then switched bank for lower SVR, lost my case with ombudsman)
 

meepman

Frequent Poster
Hi all,
Just to say that I got a letter from PTSB this week that confirms what they said to me in a phone call in mid October, after phase 2 of CB review. They consider that I am not Impacted, that this is their final statement and l can take it further with the financial ombudsman! Will wait to hear what CB review says in December.

(I had a discounted tracker, that went up to +2.25 instead of +0.8, chose the SVR rate option in the options letter under duress, then switched bank for lower SVR, lost my case with ombudsman)
I got a response from PTSB to wait upto 20 working days for my query. Mine is similar to yours but I chose the 2.25 tracker instead. Not expecting much from PTSB tbh.
 

meepman

Frequent Poster
Hi Stitcher and core123,

My situation is similar to yours core123. I'm still with PTSB. I chose the 2.25% option too but got into financial difficulties due to salary reductions, tax increase etc so have been on a warehouse mortgage for the last 4 years.
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Dee, I bet they did not explain what would happen after the discount period? Did you dispute the rate with them after the discount period?
They have not heard the end of this yet!
Gross mis selling and deception.
 

DeeMc2017

Registered User
Stitcher- my special conditions said -- On expiry of the discount period, the interest rate will be such rate as may be selected by the Applicant or such variable interest rate (which may not be a tracker variable rate) as will apply in the absence of suchselection. I never disputed it with them at the time as I naively thought the banks wouldn’t do anythin that was so underhanded. So when I got the letter about the redress, it was kind of unexpected. The letter said that I was included because of insufficient warning of the impacts of coming off the tracker or something along them lines.
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Dee, what did you think you were getting when you took out the discounted tracker initially - In terms of what did you think would happen after the discount period? Were you looking for a good value Tracker for the life of your mortgage ? Would you have ever taken a 1 Year fixed rate?

Did you ever ask them what it was discounted from?
I firmly believe that Ptsb mis sold these discounted trackers and failed to explain properly to customers what they were.
Keep on at them!
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Dee,

Thats incredible... the wording on your special condition is really what they "should" have put on mine... in my case they stated "on expiry of the discount period, the then current ptsb tracker rate will apply"...

Instead of automatically putting me on their 3.25% tracker, they sent a host of rate options to me with a misleading cover letter stating my current option was about to expire (ie: 11 months in)...

They are all over the place on this and I cannot accept their assertion that my account is not impacted...
 

LTL1234

Registered User
. The letter said that I was included because of insufficient warning of the impacts of coming off the tracker or something along them lines.
DeeMc2017 would you be able to provide us with exact details of the redress letter you received? I feel it would help those of us with a similar discounted tracker issue as we also received no information on the impact coming off a tracker but were lured off with an options letter detailing a cheaper SVR rate after the discount expired. PTSB are all over the place with these accounts but are not giving in easily. TIA.
 

LTL1234

Registered User
@DeeMc2017 Thank you for this, I really appreciate it, although very general its useful to know what angle they are taking when deciding who is impacted & who is not. From what I can tell not only did PTSB not provide adequate information at the end of the discounted tracker period they didnt provide it at the beginning either by not stating what the tracker was discounted from in the first place. Their inconsistency on how they deal with accounts is as rampant now as it was back in 2008/2009!
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Core, PFS,
the dispicable thing is that they knew EXACTLY what they were doing at that point in time when they offered the "discount" and didn't explain it but hid it in legalistic jargon. The fact is that they didn't give a discount at all!!!!! And it intrigues me that there are so many subtle differences in all the discounted tracker mortgage contracts for what is essentially the same product. That is what they are using to determine if people are impacted or not. But it is deception of the highest order not to inform customers that they have changed the rules, and the product, completely overnight and to go on as if nothing had changed.

Also, PTSB have recently hired a big shot lawyer as Chairman, Robert Elliott, who was on the legal team that notoriously got Nat West bank officials in UK off being prosecuted in a very high profile court action in the 1990's.
Now, I wonder why PTSB employed him? and l wonder why they have found so few additional impacted people!!!! ???

I for one am prepared to keep fighting to get justice.
 

Meath4sam

Registered User
I am in the same boat as some here, 0.8 discounted rate and went with tracker of 2.25 plus ECB after discounted rate finished.
Do we just sit and wait for response from PTSB or do I need to follow up with mr Kissane? I presume it’s not looking good at this stage
 

Darava

Registered User
Hi Guys, I'm new to this forum & have found all your posts really helpful but I'm so confused as to whether I'm part of this redress or not. I have a complaint with PTSB since OCT regarding the discount tracker issue & am getting letters every few weeks to say there are still investigating this, the latest is they will get back to me on 19th Jan and is the 3rd such letter I have received.

I took out my mortgage in OCT 08 on a 1 year disc tracker.After the 1st year to my shock I was sent out a list of new rates that I had to choose from rather than as I had initially thought just continuing on my tracker without the discount. I really obviously hadn't a clue. I remember calling the branch and going into them regarding and ended up going for the SVR as my Tracker option was +3.25% and the SVR was lower but I was never aware if you had a tracker mortage you could always revert back to this again. Then after a year or two with several interest rate hikes my last SVR was 5.7% so I changed to Bank of Ireland for a interest rate of 4.7% in 2010. I always thought this was my own bad luck but also felt I was duped with being sold a Tracker mortgage initially. I sent in a few complaints over the years to PTSB to question this discounted rate and never got anything back. I resent my complaint in OCT 17 however I haven't got an answer as to whether I'm included or not. Somedays I think I am and other days I read something and think thats why I'm not included.
My initially contract is below and would like to know if anyone else has similar or what does it mean ?

The interest rate applicable to this tracker mortgage loan may be varied from time to time by permanent tsb provided the interest rate will not exceed 1.30% over the European Central bank Refinancing Rate ("the ECB Rate") for the first 12months from the date of the advance ("the Discount Period"). Permanent tsb reserves the right to alter said percentage over the ECB Rate at any time prior to drawdown. The ECB Rate may be varied from time to time by the European Central Bank ("the ECB"). In the event of any variation of the ECB Rate during the Discount period and subject to the above reservation, the interest rate applicable to this loan will not be more than 1.30% over the ECB as varied by the ECB. On expiry of the Discount Period, the interest rate will be such rate as may be selected by the Applicant(s) or such variable interest rate (which may not be a tracker variable rate) as will apply in the absence of such selection. In the event of any variation of the ECB rate, the revised interest rate for the loan will apply not later than one calendar month from the date provided by the ECB as the date on which the variation to the ECB Rate will take effect.
 

ns20413

Registered User
Hello all, my case is similar to all the above but we took out our mortgage in May 2008 and we were initially put onto a 1 year new business fixed rate. At the end of this period we were to automatically go onto the current PTSB tracker rate. In April 2009 we were then sent a list of options and we too chose the LTV variable rate of 3.65% which was lower then the tracker mortgage variable rate of 3.75%(ECB + 2.25%). There was a warning on our options letter that if we chose to fix our rate at this time that we may or may not be offered a tracker again but there was no mention that if we picked the variable rate that we would forever be giving up our tracker.

I sent a letter to PTSB roughly about 2 years ago and was told that I'm not included in the redress scheme. I've also rang them recently and was told my case was reviewed again and that I'm not included. I've sent all my documents to the Ombudsman and I'm just hoping that something will come out of that.
 

Somar

Registered User
After hearing Jeremy Mandings reply to the margin issue query at Oireachtas committee on Tuesday last, I am not as confident now that those whom have not been impacted, will be in the future.
His point is that if you take out a fixed rate today with PTSB, they cannot predict what rates will be in 1-3 yrs time when fixed rate comes to an end so how could they then.
Hard to argue with that.
 

Thomas

Frequent Poster
I agree it is clear that, as expected, ptsb will not give in and will fight it out till the end regardless of the impact their behaviour has on the lives of their customers. However, using their analogy -if you come off a fixed rate now you do not know what the rates will be, our situation is not the same.

One of the key issues (in my humble opinion!) is whether ptsb made the customer fully aware of the flexible margin when they sold the customer tracker product. They didn’t make me aware as if they had I would have gone to another bank. I was sold a product where the only variable was the ECB rate and not the margin. Moving the goalposts after the product was drawn down has to be in breach of consumer protection
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
I can see the point if you start with a fixed of not knowing what the Tracker rate will be when fixed rate ends. If you start with a tracker then fix, that could be different especially if you were told you could do that and then go back on your original tracker. But for the discounted tracker people, it's different. I agree with Thomas, they certainly did not explain to customers clearly that they were changing the goalposts. Initially discounted trackers DID automatically roll on to the undiscounted rate after the discount period. Then they changed the rules and did not change the name of the mortgage to a "1 year tracker" or "2 year tracker". I would definitely not have gone for that. Definitely a consumer protection issue of misrepresentation and deception. This has to be recognised and Ptsb found guilty. Padraic will find the best way to bring PTSB to account. I am letting padraic do his stuff on my behalf . otherwise I would go demented!

Also, I don't see any other banks with discounted Tracker issues, probably because they were proper discounted trackers that rolled onto the undiscounted rate.
 
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