PTSB PTSB 1 year discounted tracker - they have put me back on the right rate

Status
Not open for further replies.

LTL1234

Registered User
Well done @Stitcher for representing the discounted tracker cohart & @Brendan Burgess for the back up. Sounds like you did a great job. I really appreciate it & like many others here I couldn't attend as Im stuck in work paying for a mortgage that is approx €400 more a month than it should be.

Fingers crossed PTSB will have a rethink.
 

TM1626

Registered User
Hi All, I just received confirmation from PTSB today that they don't consider my acoount impacted. I took out a 1 year discounted tracker mortgage with PTSB in June 2008 at a rate of 1.05% discounted from 1.50%. At the end of year one I was automatically moved onto ECB +2.25%. I queried this at the time but accepted their response that there was nothing I could do about it. I went back to them in December 2017 and filed a formal complaint. I was hoping the delay in their response was positive giving that the CBI has said they are still in discussions with PTSB, unfortunately this wasn' the case. Trying to decide now if I should go directly to the FSO or Padraic Kissane. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Hi TM,

I am sorry to hear of this outcome. Took 6 months to review this so I think there has been involvement of Central Bank by this stage to uphold the Banks stance. I drew mine 6 months after you in 2008. But they offered my a tracker margin a full 1% above you at 3.25% + ECB rate.
 

LTL1234

Registered User
Taken from @Brendan Burgess post on the latest Oireachtas meeting. Is there still a glimmer of hope???

McGrath: On the Discounted Tracker issue. People got .2% discount for year one.

It seems to me that those customers had a legitimate expectation of a lower rate.

Masding: We have made our position clear and we await feedback from the Central Bank.
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
I think there is still hope as it is definitely misleading to call something "discounted" when in reality it was not and when some "discounted trackers" did revert to the undiscounted rate, but others did not.
 

core123

Frequent Poster
That's disappointing to hear TM. I'm in a similar situation and am using Padric Kissane to deal with it at the moment. Your response has me feeling not so certain of a positive outcome but we will keep going on with it for now.
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
I have a complaint pending with FSO in relation to the handling of my account since Q1 2017. Spoke to FSO office today and they state that the Central Bank Review is ongoing. They advise to continue placing complaint on hold pending the CBI completing its work.

The fact is, PTSB used different wording for different customers on its "discounted tracker" contracts. It issued options letters with inaccurate statements relative to the original contracts. It mis-led customers to take them off tracker rates. The discounted tracker cohort may not have had an "explicit" price promise but the weight of regulation must always protect the consumer.

The time this whole thing is taking will lead to us all doubting ourselves. But remember, the Central Bank are uncovering new cohorts as recently as last week. The important thing here is the final outcome even if it takes longer than it should.

When I look at PTSB documentation/errors etc one cannot but remain positive about the outcome.
 

TM1626

Registered User
Hi All, I've decided to send all my documents to Padraic Kissane for him to review. Hopefully your right PFS7979 because even the final response letter is misleading, the 1 year discounted period is now being referred to as the One Year Fixed Rate Period.
 

core123

Frequent Poster
Just to let you know I received another update from PTSB via Padric Kissane's office. It says that they are still investigating but hoping to have a response by the 4th of July. In it they say that they will make every effort for a fair and reasonable solution with me. Hopefully I might have a more definitive answer with the next correspondence I get from PTSB.
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
Sounds promising. It will be interesting to hear the final CB tracker review report. Do we know when that will be? It was supposed to be June, does the above suggest it might be July 4th?
 

Stitcher

Frequent Poster
I think the not impacted letters wont change until the very end when we are finally considered impacted (best outcome) or not impacted (leaves us to go FSO and court routes).
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
So here we are.... coming towards end of July 2018 and nothing... only endless holding letters. When I reviewed my file at the end of 2016.. it was crystal clear that my account was mishandled. A discounted 12 month rate should have reverted to a "prevailing" tracker rate that in some way reflected the rate from which the discount applied. Not rocket science. PTSB acted in a terrible manner, inflated its "tracker" and deliberately led customers to a variable rate it could control. Did they break the law? Probably not. Did they abuse customers? Absolutely. The whole thing is dispicable.
 

LTL1234

Registered User
In it they say that they will make every effort for a fair and reasonable solution with me.
Unfortunately this is the standard holding letter response, I too was hopeful with this terminology until I began to receive it monthly. My account is deemed not impacted.
Not rocket science. PTSB acted in a terrible manner, inflated its "tracker" and deliberately led customers to a variable rate it could control. Did they break the law? Probably not. Did they abuse customers? Absolutely. The whole thing is dispicable.
Totally agree & can't understand why the CB have not forced PTSB hand on this. At the very least we signed a mortgage that was mistitled as a discounted tracker. Until the CB review is complete there is little more we can do. So frustrating especially paying an inflated monthly mortgage rate.
 

core123

Frequent Poster
@LTL1234 I see you say you were deemed not impacted. What was your situation i.e were you on a discounted rate prior to being put on a higher rate? What are your next steps now? Apologies if you have already laid this out in earlier posts.
 

LTL1234

Registered User
@core123 my situation is the same as most on this thread. I signed up for a 25 year tracker mortgage with the first year discounted. At the end of the discounted period instead of reverting to a pre-discounted rate we were offered an inflated tracker rate, a lower variable rate and a fixed rate. We questioned it at the time with no joy and we chose the lower variable rate, they increased the variable rates a number of time over the next 9 months so we eventually moved banks. I sent in an 8 point letter of complaint to PTSB in Dec 2017. After months of holding letters we eventually received a reply deeming us not impacted based around clause 9 of our mortgage contract which states at the end of the discount period our mortgage will revert to the then PTSB tracker rate. My complaint was based around the fact that PTSB did not meet their obligations under the Consumer Protection Code ‘ A regulated entity must ensure that all information it provides to a consumer is clear and comprehensible, and that key items are brought to the attention of the consumer. The method of communication must not disguise, diminish or obscure important information.’ Padraic Kissanes office reviewed our file last Oct and feel we have a case. At the moment I am waiting for the CB to finish their review so that I can pursue this with the FSO if necessary but to be honest unless the CB force PTSB's hand on this I don't see the discounted tracker cohart succeeding without court action. I hope this info helps.
 

PFS7979

Frequent Poster
Hi LTL.

I have exact same issue.

Aside from the issue of "the pre discount rate" (presumably in region of 1.25% - 1.5% based on prevailing tracker margins at the time given our discount margin was 0.75%); there is another issue.

Other PTSB customers with a Disc Tracker mortgage from mid 2008 had a different set of Special Conditions to ours. The key difference was Special Condition 1 which read as follows:

"the interest rate applicable to this loan will not be more than 1.3% over the ECB as varied by the ECB. On expiry of the Discount Period the interest rate will be such rate as may be selected by the Applicant from the PTSB rates then offered by PTSB for selection by the applicant or such Variable interest Rate (which may or may not be a tracker variable rate) as will apply in the absence of such selection".

The above wording is reflective of what actually happened on our accounts. ie: the Borrower was expected to make a rate selection after 12 months.

But our Letter of Offer was fundamentally different. Special Condition 9 stated simply that after the discount period; "the then prevailing PTSB Tracker rate will apply".

Our Special Conditions was silent on any further rate selection required on our part. Special Condition 9 stated clearly that the mortgage would revert to the then prevailing PTSB tracker rate.

Key question: why the different wording on contracts for the same product?

The answer in my opinion is that PTSB made an error with our contract and the rate options letter that issued to us contained misleading and inaccurate wording when it stated that "your current rate option will end on ..... and you must now make a choice from following rates..."

THERE WAS NO RATE OPTION/S REFERENCED ON OUR CONTRACT, NOR WAS THERE REFERENCE TO A REQUIREMENT TO MAKE A RATE CHOICE AFTER YEAR 1.

In summary.... These PTSB Letters of Offer and Rate Options Letters were inaccurate/confusing/inconsistent and PTSB used them to their advantage to lure customers off tracker rates.

There will only be one ending here; be that Central Bank or Court decision in favour of consumer.
 

DeeMc2017

Registered User
PFS have you been put back on the higher tracker or no tracker at all? Reason I’m asking is because we had that wording where it basically told us that after 12 months we would have to make a selection from whatever they offered us, but late last year we were told we were impacted and put back on the higher tracker.3.25%. We’re obviously still fighting for the proper lower tracker though. It just seems to me that although a lot of us have similar wording we are all having different outcomes
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top