Pregnant girl looking for abortion money

[Sunny]

If I was a racist and my opinion was that I should not employ black people should I be exempt from anti-discrimination laws because “nobody has the right to pass judgement or try to impose their moral beliefs on others”?

I don't get it. Nobody is breaking any laws by having an abortion.

 

[Flax]

It is killing though. Pretending it is something else is part of the reason why so many people assume abortion is a form of contraception.

I know one girl who had a "lunch break" abortion in the UK. Yep, you get them during your lunch break and you go back to work! Surely this is a sign that people think abortion is somewhat unserious?

 

[Caveat]

I agree Sunny.

One thing I've always found a bit strange though is that many of those who claim not be under the influence of the teachings of the catholic church just happen to hold the same views as the church do on abortion.

What a coincidence eh?

Does it not strike anyone as unusual that some of the most anti abortion citizens in Europe just happen to live in one of the few European states where abortion is illegal save for certain exceptions?

 

[Sunny]

It is killing though. Pretending it is something else is part of the reason why so many people assume abortion is a form of contraception.

Thats your opinion. You have already exposed your moral ambiguity by stating it is acceptable to 'kill' under some circumstances. I can understand people who are totally against it but I struggle to see your view.

 

[ney001]

I have already said I have a different opinion when it comes to sexual assault/suicidal mothers. Read my posts before jumping to conclusions please. My problem is with 99% of abotions which are based on the inconvenience of being pregnant.

You think people who bring up their children badly should have had an abortion. That's lovely. Who else should we abort? Unintelligent people? Disabled people? People you don't like?

Killing unborn children is not the solution to bad parenting.

Insane.

99%, where did that number come from?

And I'm not just talking about bad parenting I am talking about women who should never have had the children because from day one the child didn't have a good life, born to alcoholic mother, passed around to anybody who'll mind him/her, not provided with the vital tools needed to grow up happy and healthy. I personally believe that a lot of children born to a set up like this get into a vicious circle and they themselves will end up having unwanted children or will end up in a life of drugs/crime etc as a way of escaping an abusive situation at home.

In an ideal world, these people would not be allowed to have children in the first place but if we cannot prevent them from getting pregnant then I think once it's done at a very early stage - abortion is one solution.

I can honestly say that while I personally would not have an abortion (due to knowing that I could provide adequately for a child) I wouldn't hesitate to allow my 13/14/15/16 year old daughter to have one. And yes of course teenagers shouldn't be having children but they are children themselves and do bloody stupid things , as such I would not force any child of mine to bring a child into the world as a way of making her pay for having unprotected sex!.

 

[michaelm]

Nobody is breaking any laws by having an abortion.

In the early 40's a German doctor could legally kill Jews, in Britain he'd be charged with murder. In the 70's a British doctor could legally carry out abortions, in Germany he'd have been prosecuted. Laws change but right and wrong don't.

 

[ney001]

In the early 40's a German doctor could legally kill Jews, in Britain he'd be charged with murder. In the 70's a British doctor could legally carry out abortions, in Germany he'd have been prosecuted. Laws change but right and wrong don't.

Aren't we lucky that MichaelM can tell us what is right and what is wrong!

 

[Caveat]

In the early 40's a German doctor could legally kill Jews, in Britain he'd be charged with murder. In the 70's a British doctor could legally carry out abortions, in Germany he'd have been prosecuted. Laws change but right and wrong don't.

It's a good example - but laws change for a reason.

Germany is unusual in that to this day abortion is technically illegal there - although it is carried out and no-one is prosecuted.

Ireland has the most restrictive abortion laws in Europe and in the vast majority of European countries abortion is available on request - are they all wrong?

 

[Sunny]

In the early 40's a German doctor could legally kill Jews, in Britain he'd be charged with murder. In the 70's a British doctor could legally carry out abortions, in Germany he'd have been prosecuted. Laws change but right and wrong don't.

Is that seriously the best you can do? For someone with such strong beliefs on something, that is a weak defence. I am not going to waste my time tearing that argument apart.

Just want to ask who decides right and wrong for us all? You?

 

[csirl]

Getting back to the OPs original question. Lets look at it from a purely legal unemotional point of view:

Person A & Person B jointly engage in an activity.

As a result of this activity, Person A claims to have incurred unforeseen expenditure.

Person A asks Person B to share the unforeseen expenditure as both are equally responsible.

Person B says, yes I will share the unforeseen expenditure, can you show me proof that the expenditure was incurred.

Person A refuses to show the proof so Person B, who has no proof the expenditure was actually incurred and doubts that it was, refuses to pay.

I think that if the above ever went to court, the Judge would rule that Person A should not expect to receive payment unless they provide proof of expenditure to Person B.

 

[Purple]

One thing I've always found a bit strange though is that many of those who claim not be under the influence of the teachings of the catholic church just happen to hold the same views as the church do on abortion.

All major religions oppose abortion.
My opinion on abortion is that it is not a black and white issue but an unborn child is being killed; it is not a form of contraception. My view on the subject are not informed by the Catholic Church or any other Church as I am an atheist and have been for a very long time. This is about the only morally contentious subject where my views are close to those of the Catholic Church.

 

[Purple]

Is that seriously the best you can do? For someone with such strong beliefs on something, that is a weak defence. I am not going to waste my time tearing that argument apart.

I thought it was a well made point.

Just want to ask who decides right and wrong for us all? You?

We decide collectivly and we are all entitled to our opinion and to express it as stronly as we like within the law.

 

[Pique318]

Jaysus, generalisations and statistics are flying like pellets from a scattergun in here now !


What follows is basically a condensed version of the previous 3 pages....

It's right to be able to choose.
No it's not, choice gives the opportunity of murder.
So it's wrong in all cases ?
Yes.
And rape, incest..is it still wrong to have an abortion then?
Well, perhaps not.
So murder is OK then ?
No...but at times....maybe.
Oh maybe?
Well..um..y'see it's too easily accessible, people do it without thinking it through.
So you're saving them from themselves?
Yes, exactly !
Ohh, Now I see. Thanks for your time, Oh Omnipotent One.
You're welcome.




Now here's a spanner to throw in the works...
Murder means taking a life. Murder of a 30-weeks-pregnant woman is still only murder of 1 person.
In my opinion, life begins when that being (lamb, calf, puppy, kitten or infant) is born and breathes on its own, or else I'm 9 months older than I think I am. Anything can happen (especially in the first 15 weeks) to cause the pregnancy to terminate 'naturally'. Some women don't know they're pregnant and their lifestyle may cause it unintentionally. Should they be charged with manslaughter ?
If not, why not ? Intentional killing is murder, unintentional killing is manslaughter.

 

[truthseeker]

excellent Post!
Flax (and Agreers) You Have An Absolutist Approach To Morality, And You See Abortion As The Killing Of A Child. Many Will Disagree, Firstly, With Your Terminiology. For Me (and Many Others) A Baby Is Not A Baby Until It Is Born. It Is A Foetus, And Before That An Embryo, Not A Baby, But A Potential Baby. You Say Abortion Is Killing, I Say It Is Termination, That Is, Termination Of The Possibility Of Life.
I Also Say That A Woman,who Is Already A Living, Breathing, Autonomous Person, Has More Rights Than A Collection Of Cells That Is Wholly Dependent On That Women For Survival.
Prohibiting Abortion Is An Infringement On A Womans Right To Liberty And Physical Integrity. Imo It Is Utterly Wrong To Require A Woman To Complete A Pregnancy When She Is Unwilling Or Unable To Undertake Such An Enormous Commitment.
Every Child Should Be A Wanted Child.

+1

 

[Caveat]

All major religions oppose abortion.

Yes, but I was contending that many people whether they realise it or not, in this country, hold the views they do because of the influence of the catholic church - even those who claim not to be religious. I'm not saying people are incapable of independently holding these views but I think it's rare.

 

[Sunny]

We decide collectivly and we are all entitled to our opinion and to express it as stronly as we like within the law.

Exactly and peope have decided collectively that abortion is ok albeit in the usual Irish roundabout way of saying it is ok as long as it is not done here. Where did I say you were weren't allowed to express your opinion? I said you are not entitled to pass judgement or impose your moral beliefs on people who disagree with you as they are not doing anything illegal. And in my opinion saying people who have abortions are 'killers' is passing judgement based your own personal beliefs.

Out of curiosity, do people consider the morning after pill an abortion?

 

[Vanilla]

I personally wish abortion didn't exist. I think it is wrong under any circumstance to have an abortion except where there is a real medical issue affecting the life of the mother or child. But I cannot impose my morality on other people. Because if travelling to the UK to have an abortion is not against the law then all we have left is our own personal morality. I believe that people must ( within the confines of the law) adhere to their own code of morality. So while I am saddened by the circumstances of the OPs post and wish that the girl in question would consider anything other than an abortion ( keeping the child or adoption), I do not think that I or anyone else can force the issue.

 

[Sunny]

I personally wish abortion didn't exist. I think it is wrong under any circumstance to have an abortion except where there is a real medical issue affecting the life of the mother or child. But I cannot impose my morality on other people. Because if travelling to the UK to have an abortion is not against the law then all we have left is our own personal morality. I believe that people must ( within the confines of the law) adhere to their own code of morality. So while I am saddened by the circumstances of the OPs post and wish that the girl in question would consider anything other than an abortion ( keeping the child or adoption), I do not think that I or anyone else can force the issue.

Well said.

 

[CharlieC]

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born. ~Ronald Reagan

 

[Purple]

Excellent post!
Flax (and agreers) you have an absolutist approach to morality, and you see abortion as the killing of a child. Many will disagree, firstly, with your terminiology. For me (and many others) a baby is not a baby until it is born. It is a foetus, and before that an embryo, not a baby, but a potential baby. You say abortion is killing, I say it is termination, that is, termination of the possibility of life.

So you're cool with abortion at 8 months?