EBS EBS update Dec 2017

[haveaniceday]

TigerDebt
- you need to make an open request from them like give me everything you have on my file - copy of all documentation and correspondence relating to my loan - ask them for every last thing they have on you

 

[TrackerThieves]

Hi. I received documents from the Sars unit this week. The original loan facility was not provided along with the original contract. I have since requested these. The only document of note is this tracker application which we signed at the time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

This document is identical to the one i have, I am trying to figure out if this document is the loan agreement and have been disputing this with them for a number of years as they insist this was not a loan offer. although it says it is a tracker application form it appears to me to be a letter of offer. it has the stated rate above ECB and also says “in this case, the tracker mortgage will remain at x.xx% above the ECB repo rate for the remaining life of the loan. The rate will apply from the 1st of the month following receipt of this request.
This makes it clear that all that needed to be done to avail of the tracker rate was to sign and return these forms.

 

[deansmith27]

Hi B26354. May be a slightly different cohort here. Started on tracker. Never signed up to a fixed but rolled onto a SVR around 2008 when an SVR matched the tracker rate at the time. Never got back on tracker and was unaware. Anyone else in this cohort?

 

[B26354]

Hi B26354. May be a slightly different cohort here. Started on tracker. Never signed up to a fixed but rolled onto a SVR around 2008 when an SVR matched the tracker rate at the time. Never got back on tracker and was unaware. Anyone else in this cohort?

What does it say on your loan offer?

There are a number of different cohorts:

I’ve attached an example of an EBS loan offer where the poster here started on a tracker. Note the interest rate type (variable) & interest rate basis (Variable ECB Base + margin) are included in offer I don’t think this cohort have been impacted unless they moved to a fixed rate.

There are also posters on here who were told they were to start on a tracker & who completed the tracker application form and had “variable base rate” in their loan offer but the interest rate basis was not included in the loan offer. I think there was a poster on here who started on a variable base & although no interest rate basis was included in the offer the T’s & C’s indicated there was a margin above ECB. This cohort have yet to be deemed impacted.

There are also customers who started on fixed & reverted to variable base after fixed rate but rolled onto a SVR instead. Some of these customers were told they would revert to a tracker after fixed rate and/or were given additional interest rate basis information that confirmed the interest rate type (variable base rate) to be a tracker. Some were not given this info & i’m sure a lot of this group don’t even now they are supposed to be on a tracker now. These have yet to be deemed impacted.

There are probably other EBS variable base cohorts as loan offers & accompanying info given to customers seems to vary across EBS branches & EBS appointee brokers. The “variable base” is the interest rate type in the EBS loan offers but notably the interest rate basis is not included in a lot of the variable base offers despite the EBS mortgage T’s & C’s stating that it is.

 

[B26354]

There is also be a cohort of EBS customers who have split mortgages e.g. split of tracker & fixed. I recall that the poster YerGrand had a split mortgage (fixed to variable base & tracker) and both parts of the loan offer indicated that there would be a margin above ECB applied to both the variable base & tracker parts of loan i.e. they were both trackers. I’ve attached a screen shot of that posters fixed to variable base part of the loan offer.

 

[IdesofMarch]

Hopefully there are a few more grenades to throw at EBS

 

[B26354]

There seems to be little or no consensus on EBS exposure to tracker rates across EBS/AIB documentation or statements. Annual reports from 2007-2008 suggest a figure for new tracker business that is somewhere between 25-28%; EBS management such as Fidelma Clarke & Alan Merriman who have appeared at Oireachtas committee meetings circa 2015/2016 have suggested a figure as low as 20%.Others such as Eithne Tinney have claimed EBS’ loan book exposure to trackers to be as high as 60%. And now I have found this EBS prospectus from late 2017 which states that at the end of 2016 EBS’ exposure to tracker rates on their loan book is actually 35% (see attached). Are all of these accounted for in the Central Bank examination? The difference between 20% & 35% in real customer numbers would be in the thousands.

 

[deansmith27]

Accenture tasked with looking at EBS's tracker issues.

Received a letter from EBS re tracker redress that KPMG is reviewing tracker cases

 

[B26354]

Further information from the recent EBS prospectus attached. This section on the central bank tracker investigation identifies the specific risks to EBS including the mis-selling of products as a result of inappropriate sales practices & reward structures.

 

[TrackerThieves]

Hi. I received documents from the Sars unit this week. The original loan facility was not provided along with the original contract. I have since requested these. The only document of note is this tracker application which we signed at the time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Did you find out if there was another loan offer or was this "application form"
the loan offer?

 

[deansmith27]

Did you find out if there was another loan offer or was this "application form"
the loan offer?

Locked out of TigerDebt account.

They just resent a copy of the application form after I specifically asked for the original contract. I can only summise that the tracker application form is in fact ''the loan offer'' which could strengthen my case hugely.

I may just ring them and politely remind them they mistakenly removed me from my tracker! No harm!

 

[haveaniceday]

Yeah Deansmith not really inspiring is it that SARS can't send you your loan application form?
what I can only surmise from what I have see from people posting on threads here is that this organisation was / is a complete shambles

- not only that but key people in positions in this organisation at the time that these ' not worth the paper they are written on loan deals ' still have MAJOR roles in Irish banks/ mortgage operations in Ireland today

SARS failed to send me what I asked for too - basic information - Like 'the terms of my loan agreement' - you could not make this UP!!

 

[deansmith27]

Yeah Deansmith not really inspiring is it that SARS can't send you your loan application form?
what I can only surmise from what I have see from people posting on threads here is that this organisation was / is a complete shambles

- not only that but key people in positions in this organisation at the time that these ' not worth the paper they are written on loan deals ' still have MAJOR roles in Irish banks/ mortgage operations in Ireland today

SARS failed to send me what I asked for too - basic information - Like 'the terms of my loan agreement' - you could not make this UP!!

Tactically they may just be stalling until the CBI finish their review.

In any case if they were to magically furnish the original terms of my loan at a later court hearing, they would clearly be in breach of the GDPR regulations as I have in writing a number of requests for all contracts & info relevant to my account. I'm not too worried if they cant get their business together at this time. I'll press ahead with forwarding all my info to Padraic Kissane

 

[B26354]

Tactically they may just be stalling until the CBI finish their review.

In any case if they were to magically furnish the original terms of my loan at a later court hearing, they would clearly be in breach of the GDPR regulations as I have in writing a number of requests for all contracts & info relevant to my account. I'm not too worried if they cant get their business together at this time. I'll press ahead with forwarding all my info to Padraic Kissane

I’m hoping that they won’t finish their review until EBS & some of the other banks pay up. If the CBI were happy with the banks explanation as to why each cohort should not be deemed impacted, said banks would be very quick to let customers know that.

Any ambiguity or lack of transparency around contractual terms in loan offers should mean that customers are favoured in complaints. That is consumer law. So...the longer it takes for banks, CBI & auditors to decide if a customer should be deemed impacted or not the more evidence there is to suggest that loan offer contractual terms & conditions are ambiguous & lack clarity.

 

[Truffade]

I see movement on my account online so the rest of you impacted folk should likewise take a look.

It says 'BD refund' and is a large amount. It is however only about 70% of what I had calculated.

Confusingly though, the mortgage balance has also been reduced - but only by approx 50% of the 'BD refund' amount. Monthly payments are likewise down.

I will await the letter for detail. It does seem like 'redress' is happening though. Might be a day for that champagne....

 

[EbsLoannotrafor]

Great stuff , thanks for that . Ringing them earlier week no movement in balance . Amazing how distrustful I have become of them , won’t believe it till I see it ! Each time I do the calculations and each time they vary using amortization tables one at average rate over x years as charged and then one at tracker average rate over years so is only approx . Have you a straight forward calculation ??!!
Delighted for you , enjoy the champagne !

 

[Truffade]

Great stuff , thanks for that . Ringing them earlier week no movement in balance . Amazing how distrustful I have become of them , won’t believe it till I see it ! Each time I do the calculations and each time they vary using amortization tables one at average rate over x years as charged and then one at tracker average rate over years so is only approx . Have you a straight forward calculation ??!!
Delighted for you , enjoy the champagne !

I just created two Excel amortisation tables side by side.
1) being the actual numbers reported on my mortgage statement.
2) being what it should have been, using the actual ECB rate + my 1.05% tracker margin.

Both dated since I came off fixed in 2011.

(1) - (2) = redress!

 

[Bikini Widow]

Hi Truffade,

I assumed we were getting a cheque.

Best wishes,
BW

 

[EbsLoannotrafor]

Thanks , the overall principle will be reduced in addition to redress also and then there’s compensation for changes to lifestyle , using a pension early etc that would not take place if there hadn’t made the mistake and then I want the interest for the use of my money they had while I didn’t have the use of it !!...

 

[Truffade]

We might be! I have no idea what they are trying to do and it's clear as mud from their crappy online system.

This 'BD refund' item popped up on Weds.

Say it was for X

The mortgage balance has gone down by approx 50% of X. And the monthly payments have gone down (again, after the initial reduction 2 months ago).

So, until I get a letter, I'm somewhat in the dark but the activity to date leads me to think it'll be both a principal reduction and a cheque.