EBS EBS update Dec 2017

Truffade

Registered User
so for Bikini Widow and others: I took this from the AIB statement today.

Following ongoing review, AIB will pay redress and compensation to an additional c.900 customers. These are customers who had a tracker rate, switched to a fixed rate and were on a fixed rate when trackers were withdrawn in October 2008. While they did not have a contractual right to revert to a tracker other material may have led customers to believe that they could.

I think this cohort includes me. Now having said that, I have received no communication whatsoever from EBS....

Where do we go from here?
 

Bikini Widow

Frequent Poster
The EBS (no)helpline?

Will try them tomorrow but expect some stock answer.

I also called Padraic’s office but too soon for them to know.
 

Truffade

Registered User
I don't expect any near-term movement to be honest. I find the statement quite interesting though as it does specifically reference our cohort.
 

Bikini Widow

Frequent Poster
Just rang the EBS Helpline and lady who answered confirmed
1. No idea yet if EBS residential customers are impacted but assumes they may well be
2. That impacted customers would be contacted by EBS by end of March 2018

Best wishes,
BW
 

RajR

Frequent Poster
Hello all,

That statement from AIB seems like a ray of hope! I also called the EBS helpline this afternoon and got the exact same feedback BW got above. The guy from the helpline said, the review is still ongoing and advised to wait until March 2018. The last time I had called the helpline during November, I was told that our account was not identified as impacted because of the tracker application form that was signed. The feedback from today is slightly different and positive! I hope!

Best Wishes,
 

Bikini Widow

Frequent Poster
Hi I decided to call back EBS helpline today to see if I could gleam any further details, between the usual answers the person informed me that
1. The AIB numbers provided are in the main purely AIB.
2. My account not yet seen as impacted
3. Accounts will continue to be tested against criteria provided by CB and if anything is found I would then expect a letter by March

I questioned was the announcement from AIB just AIB or both AIB and EBS and he was unsure. All he knew was that only the 5 lenders made announcements.

Not great news and still very unclear.

BW
 

RajR

Frequent Poster
Same here. I called AIB helpline to query on the AIB statement released 20th Dec and was told the statement and the numbers reported are AIB customers only, EBS not included! He couldn't provide any details as to why EBS was not included etc., Our account is not yet identified as impacted but the review is still ongoing with a June 2018 deadline. Don't understand why there's absolutely no mention of EBS anywhere! lack of information and clarity, very frustrating. Guess, will have to wait and see if things change in the new year!
 

breda mcevoy

Registered User
Hi folks
I have 2 mortgages both with EBS, 1 taken out as a 3 year fixed rate in 2002 and a 2nd mortgage taken out in 2006 as a fixed rate for 3 years. When the initial period expired I was transferred to a variable rate. Should I have been offered a tracker and if not do I have any recourse . thanks for your help folks
 

Duggie

Registered User
Morning Brendan.

This appears to be similar to my experiences with Danske. Would you agree?

Tks....
 

EbsLoannotrafor

Frequent Poster
Hi Rajr,
Simliar " helpline" experience , are ebscustomers discriminated against in the aib ocean ... the help line said initially it was only aib customers ( re release 20 th Dec ) but when I queried this , was mine an ebs mortgage included she kept saying she didn't understand , this seems to be the retort if they don't want to answer you , did the 20 th Dec release from aib include ebs customers ?... is that so difficult to understand . ?Are ebs customers unfairly discriminated against , Will they try to sell off ebs ??
 

RajR

Frequent Poster
All, When I rang EBS helpline on 29th Dec to query why no EBS accounts like ours were not included in the recent statement from AIB, I was given the same answer that those numbers are specific to AIB, but the guy advised he could lodge a complaint on my behalf which will guarantee a response within 5 business days and subsequent updates every 28 days at the least. So, I went ahead and asked him to lodge one. Got a letter last Friday acknowledging the complaint and that the review is ongoing, our account is included in the review and I can expect an update in 28 days or earlier. While this tells nothing different or new, at least EBS have an obligation to provide an update every 28 days at the least. My case is also with Padraic Kissane, and I think it would be good if others also call up the helpline and lodge a complaint to up the pressure on EBS to act/respond more timely.
 
I wasn't really aware of the detail of this issue until the last day or so. I would have to say that, in my opinion, it's not looking good.

Was this the application form you all signed?

upload_2018-1-8_14-38-36.png


That is very clear cut. "Once you have chosen to opt out of the tracker mortgage, you can not switch back to this rate option."

I have not seen a statement as clear or as prominent as that in any of the other loan documentation, where people lost their trackers.

So your best argument is:

"It was your duty to remind us on the Fixed Rate form that we would lose our tracker".

The problem is that back then people didn't know the value of trackers. Even if you had been told that, you would probably still have fixed.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't think you would succeed in a court of law.
I don't know how the Ombudsman would interpret this.

Your best chance is to get the Central Bank to insist that AIB puts you back on trackers.

But AIB is ahead of the rest of the market on this. I would imagine that they have discussed this cohort with the Central Bank and if the Central Bank has not persuaded AIB/EBS to move on this, then I don't think they are going to.

It's important to be realistic here. If EBS relents and gives you back your trackers great. But I don't think any of you should be planning on the basis that you will get them back.


Brendan
 
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Sarenco

Frequent Poster
I agree with Brendan that, on the face of it, there wouldn't appear to be any contractual right to roll to a tracker rate on expiry of the fixed term. The terms of the above letter look pretty clear cut.

However, we know that the Central Bank has applied pressure to the banks to put some customers on trackers after their fixed terms, even where they had no contractual right to a tracker. This was on the basis of the impacted customers' "expectations", presumably as determined by the Central Bank.

So, where does the Central Bank draw the line in this regard? I'm afraid I've no idea.

I've given up trying to find any discernible principles in the Central Bank's published pronouncements on the tracker review process - their decisions look entirely arbitrary to me.

So I wouldn't give up hope!:)
 

EbsLoannotrafor

Frequent Poster
Important to note Brendan , that form was an application form for mortgage, but was NOT included with or referred to in the subsequent loan agreement which referred to the tracker for the life of the mortgage and to revert if fixed to the prevailing variable rate, which as per loan agreement was a tracker . The important point is it is not part of the subsequent loan agreement or even referred to in the loan agreement and predates it .
 
Hi

When you look at this wording

"Once you have chosen to opt out of the tracker mortgage, you can not switch back to this rate option."

and the wording of the Fixed Rate Agreement

I/We wish to convert the balance of my/our loan account to a fixed rate for next 5 years

I/We understand that when this period has expired the loan will revert to the applicable variable rate then prevailing.
  • I fixed (2006) understanding that I would return to tracker (no warning - fixed rate conversion form stated I would return to the 'applicable variable' which I understood to be the variable rate in my contract - ECB +1.25%)
  • I was put on a variable rate after the fixed term ended.
it's very, very clear.

I would be surprised if the Central Bank put pressure on EBS to give you back your trackers. But I have been surprised before.

But I think it's important for EBS customers not to raise their hopes too high. Lots of people got trackers back, but that does not mean that everyone who ever had a tracker will get theirs back.

Brendan
 

EbsLoannotrafor

Frequent Poster
The applicable variable rate then prevailing , I and most people would see that as the tracker ( variable ) rate in the loan agreement / contract . I find it hard to believe an application form that wasn’t part of the loan agreement / contract overrides that .
 
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