Buying a diesel car nowadays

[joe sod]

Some good points made above about green bonds financing electric car research and manufacturing for the big auto makers like GM, they are forecasting 400,000 electric cars by 2024 but they manufactured almost 3 million cars in 2019 (pre covid figures) . I am sceptical about forecasts by big organisations regarding what they expect to do about the "green transition" .
Afterall it is in their interests to give the most optimistic forecasts regarding this transition as that is what everyone wants to hear. However at the end of all these forecasts there is a "cautionionary note" that they can only be held accountable for historical figures from the past but not for forecasts about the future.

I remember at the beginning of 2020 especially around Davos in January 2020 when Greta Thurnberg was in attendance , there were all these announcements by the huge financial funds like Blackrock and the Norwegian Sovereign fund that they were divesting themselves of their fossil fuel investments, it got big headlines and contributed to the further slump in oil prices back then.
Lo and behold when you google how this divestment is now proceeding

"Blackrock tells UK 'no' to halting investments in coal ,oil and gas"
"Can Norway's $1.3 trillion oil fund actually give up oil"
As the saying goes words are cheap

 

[bstop]

BritishOTE="Blackrock1, post: 1803510, member: 98970"]
Is the article not about a decrease in production in the uk ?
[/QUOTE]

This is not just a UK phenomenon, the centre said. It is now expecting electric vehicle production across Europe to be 1 million units lower than expected at 12 million, thanks to the impacts of the rising cost of living, inflation and the vehicles’ affordability.

 

[Purple]

Ah please @Purple statements to that effect have been made so many times on AAM, numerous times in this thread alone, and refuted with readily available data/studies. Let’s not take yet another useful thread into pointless circular discussions that will inevitably end up closed by the moderators.

I'm a big fan of EV's. If I was buying a new car I'd get one. They aren't the problem.
Our electricity generation infrastructure is the problem. How the power is generated that goes into our EV's is not in dispute.

 

[Purple]

Is the article not about a decrease in production in the uk ?

What British companies make EV's?
There are foreign owned companies making cars in the UK but what British ones are there?

 

[Blackrock1]

What British companies make EV's?
There are foreign owned companies making cars in the UK but what British ones are there?

Who said there were British companies making cars? As i said its about a decrease in production in the UK.

 

[Blackrock1]

I'm a big fan of EV's. If I was buying a new car I'd get one. They aren't the problem.
Our electricity generation infrastructure is the problem. How the power is generated that goes into our EV's is not in dispute.

The % of renewables on the grid is only going one way, the grid will have to be upgraded to accommodate and that is also happening, whats your point? that we just wait until all of that is done to move to EVs?

 

[fidelcastro]

There's a 1.5km road between the estate I live in and a local primary school. It's bumper to bumper every morning before the start of school. There are kids walking for 15 minutes every day to and from school breathing in toxic fumes along that road.

Can you see how the planet would benefit if fossil fuel cars in this scenario are replaced all over the world?

yes, if the parents stopped driving their kids to school, and the kids walked/cycled. Just because in Eire its the common way, doesnt apply to the rest of the world.

 

[fidelcastro]

The world plans to burn more than 8 billion tonnes of coal in 2023. More than any previous year in history. Coal is cheap and readily available. It doesn’t depend on sun or wind. Germany is reopening coal fired electricity plants. Renewables are too expensive to set up and not a priority right now with debt so high, healthcare in crisis and war still ongoing. With rising unit costs of electricity EVs are down the list of priorities in my view. At least you know at the diesel pump where you stand. Most are dreading their winter utility bills right now.

yes, you know you are riching those lovely despots of the world, saudi, qatar, ruzzia...

 

[Purple]

Who said there were British companies making cars? As i said its about a decrease in production in the UK.

The headline said it.

 

[Purple]

The % of renewables on the grid is only going one way, the grid will have to be upgraded to accommodate and that is also happening, whats your point? that we just wait until all of that is done to move to EVs?

Well keeping your existing car for the moment would probably be a good idea from an environmental point of view considering the carbon footprint of the manufacturing process for EV's, particularly those using batteries made in China, and the current fuel mix of our electricity generation network. If you are buying a new car then an EV is the best option. If you are buying a replacement car then a second hand car is the best option.
At some stage in the future we'll start using more reliable green energy from France but at the moment there are no plans to build any reliable green energy generation capacity in Ireland, rather we will continue to rely on wind power.

 

[Purple]

yes, you know you are riching those lovely despots of the world, saudi, qatar, ruzzia...

Yep, we should be building more Nuclear power stations. That is the only reliable green energy we have. Instead we poison the air with the by-product of coal and oil power stations and kill thousands of people. It has been estimated that 8.7 million people die every year from the pollution caused by burning fossil fuels but we are frightened of nuclear power. Madness.

 

[Blackrock1]

Well keeping your existing car for the moment would probably be a good idea from an environmental point of view considering the carbon footprint of the manufacturing process for EV's, particularly those using batteries made in China, and the current fuel mix of our electricity generation network. If you are buying a new car then an EV is the best option. If you are buying a replacement car then a second hand car is the best option.
At some stage in the future we'll start using more reliable green energy from France but at the moment there are no plans to build any reliable green energy generation capacity in Ireland, rather we will continue to rely on wind power.

There are 100s of wind and solar projects in various stages of development and lots of battery storage facilities also in the works to smooth out the peaks and troughs linked to those renewable sources. Fear not.

 

[Purple]

There are 100s of wind and solar projects in various stages of development and lots of battery storage facilities also in the works to smooth out the peaks and troughs linked to those renewable sources. Fear not.

They won't work. If the wind isn't blowing then none of the turbines turn and battery storage is expensive, environmentally damaging and short term. Pumped storage is a better solution at the moment but wind and batteries won't get us through those weeks that we often get in January and February when the sky is clear and the air is still.
In a grid powered by wind and solar there needs to be 40% extra redundant capacity that can be turned on when required. Fossil fuel stations are the only option for that. That is why the oil companies are all pushing wind and solar. Nuclear power doesn't need that extra capacity and so perfectly complements wind and solar.

So, EV's are great if you are buying a new car but they only really become environmentally friendly when they are powered from a grid that has a nuclear & renewable energy mix. Maybe the interconnector to France will be the solution and will complement the nuclear we currently consume that is generated in Wales.

In the meantime the most environmentally friendly thing I can do is keep my second hand diesel car and use it as little as possible.

 

[RichInSpirit]

Why I’ve pulled the plug on my electric car

As I watch my family strike out on foot across the fields into driving rain and gathering darkness, my wife holding each child’s hand, our new year plans in rui

www.thetimes.co.uk

Interesting piece from UK EV owner.

 

[Blackrock1]

They won't work. If the wind isn't blowing then none of the turbines turn and battery storage is expensive, environmentally damaging and short term. Pumped storage is a better solution at the moment but wind and batteries won't get us through those weeks that we often get in January and February when the sky is clear and the air is still.
In a grid powered by wind and solar there needs to be 40% extra redundant capacity that can be turned on when required. Fossil fuel stations are the only option for that. That is why the oil companies are all pushing wind and solar. Nuclear power doesn't need that extra capacity and so perfectly complements wind and solar.

So, EV's are great if you are buying a new car but they only really become environmentally friendly when they are powered from a grid that has a nuclear & renewable energy mix. Maybe the interconnector to France will be the solution and will complement the nuclear we currently consume that is generated in Wales.

In the meantime the most environmentally friendly thing I can do is keep my second hand diesel car and use it as little as possible.

we are unlikely to have a nuclear plant on the island, what we will have is a lot of renewables, a lot of storage and some flexible ccgt to support.

i agree with your final sentiment in principal but the less tailpipe emissions we have the better imo.

 

[Purple]

Why I’ve pulled the plug on my electric car

As I watch my family strike out on foot across the fields into driving rain and gathering darkness, my wife holding each child’s hand, our new year plans in rui

www.thetimes.co.uk

Interesting piece from UK EV owner.

That's already been discussed.

The Times & The Sunday Times

News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times

www.thetimes.co.uk

“Can’t help you, pal. You’ve got a software issue there. I’m just a car mechanic. And this isn’t a car, it’s a laptop on wheels.”

That article is a bit of a Jeremy Clarkson style rant. It serves him right for buying a F-Pace. They are rubbish. EV's are the future but without a massive increase in our power generation capacity and an almost total shift away from hydrocarbons they aren't the solution.

It's a bit like the way we have high environmental standards in the EU for food production and as a result only produce about one third of the food we could produce so we import the rest of what we need from countries with much lower environmental standards. In that case we've just exported our pollution. It's similar with EV's.

 

[Purple]

we are unlikely to have a nuclear plant on the island, what we will have is a lot of renewables, a lot of storage and some flexible ccgt to support.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you.

the less tailpipe emissions we have the better imo.

Yes, which is why EV's are a good thing but they are not a solution on their own. If you do moderate mileage then the most environmentally thing you can do is keep the car you have. If you are buying an EV then find our where the battery is made. If it's made in China then don't buy the car if your purchase is for environmental reasons.

 

[joe sod]

There are 100s of wind and solar projects in various stages of development and lots of battery storage facilities also in the works to smooth out the peaks and troughs linked to those renewable sources. Fear not.

The limits of battery power as regards cars don't magically disappear when they are used for grid storage, as I pointed out above the best batteries can only store a factor of 100times less power than diesel can. At full drawdown battery storage can only last just over an hour. No advances in technology are going to change that . Its a physical constraint of electrical storage not a technology issue thats why hydrogen is still the gold standard .
The backbone of the grid is still and will be conventional power stations . I have heard anecdotally that the remaining peat power station in the Midlands is actually now being powered by diesel in order to avoid power cuts during peak periods.
As regards solar , some of the best tillage land in wexford is now being covered in these due to the subsidies, they can never be used for growing crops after these go in due to all the concrete and wiring needed for each individual panel. This is when we need to be growing more crops ,not less to make up for the Ukraine shortfall. The whole thing is barmy

 

[Purple]

what we will have is a lot of renewables, a lot of storage and some flexible ccgt to support

As pointed out by @joe sod, battery storage is good for levelling out the peeks and troughs in a single day but of no use when the wind doesn't blow for days or weeks. Therefore we'll end up with the same of more CCGT (Gas and Oil) plants we have now unless we generate or import Nuclear power.
With two interconnectors we'll still be very vulnerable to sabotage or accidents. At the moment we have only one and no large scale LPG storage capacity.

 

[Blackrock1]

The limits of battery power as regards cars don't magically disappear when they are used for grid storage, as I pointed out above the best batteries can only store a factor of 100times less power than diesel can. At full drawdown battery storage can only last just over an hour. No advances in technology are going to change that . Its a physical constraint of electrical storage not a technology issue thats why hydrogen is still the gold standard .
The backbone of the grid is still and will be conventional power stations . I have heard anecdotally that the remaining peat power station in the Midlands is actually now being powered by diesel in order to avoid power cuts during peak periods.
As regards solar , some of the best tillage land in wexford is now being covered in these due to the subsidies, they can never be used for growing crops after these go in due to all the concrete and wiring needed for each individual panel. This is when we need to be growing more crops ,not less to make up for the Ukraine shortfall. The whole thing is barmy

what do you mean at full drawdown batter storage can only last an hour?