"Almost one in 10 young Irish adults believe Holocaust is a myth"

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Cervelo said:
From my understanding of what happened back then this is slightly inaccurate
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I agree with your post.
My understanding of how the extermination of various 'undesirables' developed is that a lot of it was unspoken or at least not written down.
Hitler never actually specified said this or that but his underlings caught his drift and probably if they didn't were replaced.
Also as I understand it, by 1942, ideas of mass deportations to Madagascar or Palestine however fanciful they had always been were dropped as impractical owing to the war situation and a different answer was needed and that's when the 'final solution' was agreed upon.
But again it was to be done in secret or at least with plausible deniability presumably because of fear of a backlash from the German people.
It's an interesting point to note also that in the areas controlled by Vichy France in North Africa and the Middle East no Jews were ever deported as far as I know, a stark contrast with the Vichy France proper.
This supports the idea that the goal was to rid Europe of its Jews (and other lesser peoples) and not the rest of the World.
 
Purple said:
Hamas brainwashed a generation of Palestinian children for over a decade until the vast majority supported the slaughter of children and civilians on the first of October 2024.
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Sorry but, that's a very serious accusation, to claim that the vast majority of Palestinians supported the slaughter of children and civilians on the seventh of October 2023.
Can you provide evidence for that?
 
MOB said:
I am in a database of people who have agreed to take part in surveys. That is how these things work ( in my case, the European Business Confidence surveys, and occasional additional surveys).
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I think a survey of adult business people on business issues is very different to a survey which asks about history.

I suspect that they pay people to participate and kids just tick whichever box is convenient.
 
Inexpensive said:
Sorry but, that's a very serious accusation, to claim that the vast majority of Palestinians supported the slaughter of children and civilians on the seventh of October 2023.
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My mistake; typing too quickly. Now corrected.
Inexpensive said:
Can you provide evidence for that?
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Sure, see here shortly after the massacre and here for a more recent poll where support is dropping. The decline in support may be more to do with the consequences than any moral revulsion. Moral revulsion is in short supply on both sides; 79% of Israeli Jews were not that troubled or not troubled at all by the suffering of Gazans. Surprisingly 14% of Israeli Arabs were not that troubled or not troubled at all by the suffering of Gazans. Source
 
Inexpensive said:
It's an interesting point to note also that in the areas controlled by Vichy France in North Africa and the Middle East no Jews were ever deported as far as I know,
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There were reasons for that and none of them were based on morality. They didn't have the resources to deport Jews from Vichy controlled North Africa, most of it was liberated by 1942/1943 (before there was time for the policies enacted as a result of the Wannsee Conference to reach there) and the Germans didn't directly occupy any of it except Tunisia, and then only for a few months. Jews in the region were stripped of their citizenship, put in concentration camps (British style ones, not German Style ones), and used as forces labour. The majority of the Jews in Arab countries and Iran were expelled after 1948 at the time of the creation of Israel, Syria, Jordan and other countries carved out of the corpse of the Ottoman Empire. It's hard to know the exact figure but it was over a third of a million between 1948 and 1951 with the total between 850,000 and 1,000,000.


Inexpensive said:
a stark contrast with the Vichy France proper.
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French Jews were not rounded up by the Germans. They were all rounded up by French police and civil authorities. It happened in Vichy France and the rest of France in equal measure.
 
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https://www.claimscon.org/study-canada/

It would appear that Ireland is not alone.

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I will have to revise my initial sentiment from a small pool of teens and young adults. Albeit, doubt has been raised here about the veracity of these polls. Certainly from my perspective Ireland is not anti-semitic. Anti-Israeli illegal occupation of West Bank and blockade of Gaza, yes, anti-Semitic, no.
 
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Sister Sara said:
I will have to revise my initial sentiment from a small pool of teens and young adults. Albeit, doubt has been raised here about the veracity of these polls.
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Yes, self selection and declaration in polls is of little real value but nonetheless it is concerning and speaks to a trend of denial of facts and adoption of extreme views due to our collective descent into the cesspool that is social "media".

Sister Sara said:
Certainly from my perspective Ireland is not anti-semitic. Anti-Israeli illegal occupation of West Bank and blockade of Gaza, yes, anti-Semitic, no.
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I'm not in a position to judge so I listen to the people who are directly affected by it. I've never experience homophobia. That's almost certainly because I'm not gay. Therefore I listen to what LGBT people have to say about it. Ditto for antisemitism and racism.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
suspect that they pay people to participate and kids just tick whichever box is convenient
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You may well be right. However, respectfully, neither the sample size (1,000) nor the fact that the sample came from a database of people willing to be surveyed are, in and of themselves, evidence of a poor-quality survey. The factors which you cited are consistent with (but not proof of) high quality processes.
 
Sister Sara said:
Anti-Israeli illegal occupation of West Bank and blockade of Gaza, yes, anti-Semitic, no.
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I agree with your earlier surmise that recent events in Israel have contributed to this belittling of the Holocaust. The only connection between those 6 million victims and current Israelis is that they are Jewish. Making any connection between the horrors suffered by the former and the actions of the latter, even subconsciously, is 100% anti semitic.
 
Purple said:
I'm not in a position to judge so I listen to the people who are directly affected by it. I've never experience homophobia. That's almost certainly because I'm not gay. Therefore I listen to what LGBT people have to say about it. Ditto for antisemitism and racism.
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I haven't experienced homophobia directly, nor anti-semitism or racism, Im neither gay, black or Jewish. I have experienced it indirectly. I know people that were subjected to violent assaults because of their sexuality. I have friends who are black who have suffered derogratory comments directly at them. And I am witnessing an almost casual, blasé demeaning of Jewish people amongst young adults. The tolerance of anti-Jewish tropes and stereotypes amongst younger people is something I did not hear of with such frequency only a couple of years ago.

None of which makes us a homophobic, racist country. Or an anti-semitic country as attributed to us by Jewish Representative Council of Ireland.

As much as anti-semitism needs to be rooted out, gross generalisations of entire populations need to be called out and challenged as well.
 
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Duke of Marmalade said:
The only connection between those 6 million victims and current Israelis is that they are Jewish. Making any connection between the horrors suffered by the former and the actions of the latter, even subconsciously, is 100% anti semitic.
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I agree, but I don't think the equivalence is being made between Israelis today and the victims of the Nazi Holocaust.

The equivalence is being made between the Nazis and the current Israeli regime and IDF.

I have no reservation in labeling Netenyahu and his administration as Nazi's, because that is what they are. He is wanted for war crimes and the system of apartheid that exists in Palestine needs to be smashed (as does the Hamas ideology, and wanted for war crimes Mohammed Deif).

In turn, sympathy to the memory of victims of the Nazi holocaust against Jews would appear to be evaporating. Not just here, but in many parts of the world if those surveys by Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (the Claims Conference) are to be taken as reliable.
 
Sister Sara said:
I agree, but I don't think the equivalence is being made between Israelis today and the victims of the Nazi Holocaust.
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Never said that was happening.
I was focussing on your observation, which I think is valid, that current Israeli actions is partly behind the denial of the Holocaust in that survey. To paraphrase the attitude it goes like this "look at what those Israelis are doing; damn their Holocaust".
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
To paraphrase the attitude it goes like this "look at what those Israelis are doing; damn their Holocaust".
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Yep, I would agree with that. While misplaced, I can empathise with young people for adopting this view. Its hard to be expected to stand shoulder to shoulder with a people whose elected leaders adopt similar language towards Palestinians and look upon them as sub-humans as the Nazis did to Jews.

The root cause of the survey results above lie firmly with the Netenyahu/IDF regime in my opinion.
 
Sister Sara said:
As much as anti-semitism needs to be rooted out, gross generalisations of entire populations need to be called out and challenged as well.
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I don't think anyone did that here. Saying that Ireland has a problem with antisemitism is not the same as saying all Irish people are antisemitic.
 
Purple said:
I don't think anyone did that here. Saying that Ireland has a problem with antisemitism is not the same as saying all Irish people are antisemitic.
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That's fair enough. I took
Purple said:
We are quite an antisemitic country
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as a generalisation that we as a country tolerate, or are prepared to tolerate anitsemitism and discrimination against Jews in civic society and within our State institutions. I dont think that is true. That is not to say we cannot do more or that we shouldn't be aware of complacency.

Im trying to find the report from the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland but it appears it wont be released in full until early this year.

This from IT report with Chief Rabbi Yoni Wieder Anti-Semitism report will detail ‘over 100 incidents of hatred’, chief rabbi says in Dec 2025.

This is obviously a very sensitive area where the criticisms and contradictions can be conflated with views that are not accurate.

My own perspective is that Ireland is not an anti-semitic country and the rise of anti-semitic incidents is in line with the atrocities perpetrated by the Israeli regime and IDF.
Similar patterns in Islamaphobia can be detected after violent attacks of 9/11, London 7/7, Madrid, Manchester and closer to home, Parnell Sq.

Why racism against Muslim people is on the rise in Ireland and Europe

Im not anti-Muslim either.

My own view is the extreme medieval teachings from the Quran, the Talmud, are being used by extreme racists in Ireland to drive forward an agenda to cause division, intolerance, fear, and culminating in an increase in racist attacks.

The extreme racists in Ireland, and I believe it will emerge in due course, are now linking internationally with others in UK and even in the US. I do believe there is now a concerted extreme effort to take Ireland out of EU, close borders and send migrants of African and Arab backgrounds. It is small, but listening to young adults talk about this stuff it is gaining traction.
 
Maybe they are listening too much to the current anti-Allianz agenda.
Not helped by a disgracefull comment by Joanne Cantwell on Sunday Game this evening. It's not for her to question whether they use the name Allianz on the programme.
 
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