"Almost one in 10 young Irish adults believe Holocaust is a myth"

[Brendan Burgess]

Almost one in 10 young Irish adults believe Holocaust is a ‘myth’

Survey finds 18 per cent believe number of people killed was greatly exaggerated

www.irishtimes.com

Commissioned by the New York-based Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany (the Claims Conference), the online survey was conducted by the Global Strategy group and involved 1,000 participants aged 18 years and over selected from a database of Irish people who have agreed to take part in surveys.


Reports of such surveys should not be given any credence in the Irish Times.

"Irish people who have agreed to take part in [online] surveys"

This is hardly representative of Irish people.

It's possible that 10% or 20% of young Irish people believe that the Holocaust is a myth. But this type of survey provides no support for that.

 

[Purple]

We are quite an antisemitic country, as detailed last year by the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland, but I think that this is more to do with on-line conspiracy theories and the associated rubbish. Self reporting studies lack merit.

 

[Inexpensive]

But this type of survey provides no support for that.

It's probably about as credible as Israel's televote in Eurovision.

 

[Cervelo]

I don't know about other peoples thinking on the Holocaust but the Nazification of Germany and the run up to and the Holocaust has always been something I've taken a morbid interest in

In the past I've watched countless hours of programs and read a good bit about that time and been amazed at how a whole nation of people can turn against one particular sect of it's citizens and often wondered about how if I was around then how I would have acted or responded

But it wasn't until Mrs C brought me to Cracow in Poland for our third wedding anniversary that I got to visit Auschwitz-Birkenau on a very cold day in February 2008 and to say it changed me is an understatement to the level that it upsets me greatly now when I watch any documentaries about the Holocaust

To any person young or old who believes the Holocaust was a "myth" or that it's been "over exaggerated" should visit the camps because it's only there you will truly witness the scale of the horrors that were inflicted on these poor unfortunate people born at the wrong time

It should never be forgotten how through a single ideology that millions upon millions of innocent people lost their lives

 

[Leper]

I find it difficult to believe that 10% of Irish young people believe the holocaust never happened. There’s something wrong with that report in my honest opinion.

 

[Sister Sara]

I don't find it difficult to believe. I'm involved in my local soccer club and in good contact with my nephew and the impression I get its now widespread amongst teens and young adults.
It stems primarily from the appalling savagery Israel inflicted over Palestinians for the last two years, including the 100+ children killed during the so-called ceasefire.

Younger generations simply do not believe a word coming out of the mouths of the Israeli administration and now this has fed into historical perspectives.

 

[Inexpensive]

In the past I've watched countless hours of programs and read a good bit about that time and been amazed at how a whole nation of people can turn against one particular sect of it's citizens and often wondered about how if I was around then how I would have acted or responded

Lies and dehumanisation, it's happened everywhere there's an inconvenient population to be got rid of, be it the Americas, Australia, Namibia, Palestine and even Ireland (the depiction of Irish people as apes comes to mind).
The German people had had years of official propaganda blaming the Jews for losing the first war and for other crimes as well as well
as dehumanising them in every way possible (such as rats for example).
But even so there was a wide range of attitudes across German society to the actual deportation of Jews.
You also have to bear in mind that the average German back then didn't know that the 'deported' Jews were actually being exterminated.
And in fact extermination only became the official policy at the Wannsee Conference in early 1942.
The government endeavoured to keep it a secret and to this end showed the German people propaganda films of deported Jews living contented lives in the 'East'.

 

[Purple]

But it wasn't until Mrs C brought me to Cracow in Poland for our third wedding anniversary that I got to visit Auschwitz-Birkenau on a very cold day in February 2008 and to say it changed me is an understatement to the level that it upsets me greatly now when I watch any documentaries about the Holocaust

The German people had had years of official propaganda blaming the Jews for losing the first war and for other crimes as well as well
as dehumanising them in every way possible (such as rats for example).

I brought my 2 sons to Auschwitz-Birkenau 5 years ago. It was a beautiful cold and dry day but we all felt the weight of history and the echo of evil and suffering in that place. I asked my boys what the difference was between us and the people who did this. They said they didn't know. I told them "Nothing, there was no difference at all". We are all capable of this if we allow ourselves to dehumanise the "other" and allow a twisted form of empathy for those we identify with to be used to inflict evil on those we do not identify with.

 

[Leo]

Younger generations simply do not believe a word coming out of the mouths of the Israeli administration and now this has fed into historical perspectives.

Wow! What young Irish adults are so devoid of information sources that they rely on the output of the Israeli administration?

 

[Purple]

Younger generations simply do not believe a word coming out of the mouths of the Israeli administration and now this has fed into historical perspectives.

It's sad how social "media" has created a simplistic narrative of good guys and bad guys, grounded in emotion rather than data or historical fact, and has left no room for critical thinking and analysing. It's easy to blame the kids who then develop such stupid simplistic views but it's really their parents fault for not teaching them better.

 

[Inexpensive]

Wow! What young Irish adults are so devoid of information sources that they rely on the output of the Israeli administration?

Can you recommend any international media sources that you would trust to be objective on this issue?

 

[Leo]

Can you recommend any international media sources that you would trust to be objective on this issue?

Can you explain why someone would choose an international media source as their primary means of learning about history?

 

[Inexpensive]

Can you explain why someone would choose an international media source as their primary means of learning about history?

It's not history, it's current affairs and in particular one conflict. I find Irish media to be good insofar as it goes but it doesn't have the resources the media in other countries have and so very commonly stories on international events in newspapers for example will be republished reports from The Telegraph, The Washington Post, The Guardian etc. That's what i mean.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

It stems primarily from the appalling savagery Israel inflicted over Palestinians for the last two years, including the 100+ children killed during the so-called ceasefire.

UNICEF reported earlier in January that at least 40 children were killed across Sudan in just a three-day period involving separate attacks in Darfur, Khartoum, and Kordofan.

Heck that's just Africans killing African children.

 

[Sister Sara]

Wow! What young Irish adults are so devoid of information sources that they rely on the output of the Israeli administration?

I would suggest it is the standard mainstream sources, RTE, BBC, Independent news, C4 etc along with social media reporting, TikTok, X, etc on what the Israeli administration says and does that they gauge their views on Israel.

In turn, losing the sympathy of a lot of people around the world, young and old.

My own opinion, wanted war-criminal Naziyahoo and his rouge regime have done more damage to the memory of victims of the Holocaust than any deniers of such have done, and by some considerable margin.

 

[Sister Sara]

It's easy to blame the kids who then develop such stupid simplistic views but it's really their parents fault for not teaching them better.

That could be tricky though? If according to Jewish Representative Council of Ireland we are already an anti-semtic country?

I don't see it myself but certainly, and I'm only gauging from a small pool of young adults here, the tone and sentiment towards Zionism is in the gutter. Sadly, Judaism is also being conflated with this movement to the detriment of the memory of the Nazi holocaust against Jews and resonates along with the attached report albeit the source and methodology may be not be reliable.

 

[Sister Sara]

how a whole nation of people can turn against one particular sect of it's citizens

I think its unfair to label the whole German nation of people with this. There were very many who were opposed to the Hitler regime. The election in 1932, before Hitler became Chancellor shows the support for Nazis at 43%. And even within the Nazi party there were sectoral divisions/interests for supporting Hitler other than the core anti-semitic ideology. That's not to excuse their tolerance and complicity but to identify that it was far from the 'whole nation of people' that turned against Jews.

The Socialist Democrats, The Communist Party of Germany and The Centre Party were openly campaigning against Hitler and anti-Jewish discrimination and they had a combined vote of 40%, or thereabouts.

Once Hitler took power he turned Germany into a violent police state where political opposition face routine executions, imprisonment and suppression and election fraud that to outsiders it would certainly appear that the whole nation was behind Hitler.

There would have been no need for a violent repressive police state if he had anywhere near the support of the whole people.

It must have been a terrifying time for all Germans that opposed the Nazi regime.

 

[Purple]

That could be tricky though? If according to Jewish Representative Council of Ireland we are already an anti-semtic country?

I don't see it myself but certainly, and I'm only gauging from a small pool of young adults here, the tone and sentiment towards Zionism is in the gutter. Sadly, Judaism is also being conflated with this movement to the detriment of the memory of the Nazi holocaust against Jews and resonates along with the attached report albeit the source and methodology may be not be reliable.

Once a particular extremist group gets control of the education system, and a good chunk of the media, it's relatively easy to twist a large proportion of the population until they are willing to inflict appalling abuse on another group of people.
The Nazis brainwashed their soldiers from the time they were 12 until they were at least 17 or 18.
In Rwanda the Hutus brainwashed their population for a generation until Tutsis were cockroaches, it was remarkable similar to what happened in Nazi Germany.
Hamas brainwashed a generation of Palestinian children for over a decade until the vast majority supported the slaughter of children and civilians on the Seventh of October 2023 (edited to correct date).
Generations of Israeli children in the Kibbutz and elsewhere have been brainwashed into thinking that the will of their God necessitates the most appalling abuse and slaughter of their neighbours.

For nearly two thousand years Christianity controlled the education system and media, in as much as their was either, and thought us that homosexuals, apostates, witches and other non conformists would burn in hell for eternity and it was better to inflict whatever suffering was necessary in this mortal plane in order to save their immortal soul. That justified oppression, imprisonment, Crusades (not the ones against the Muslims), hangings, drownings and burning people alive. As for how they taught us to treat women...



Now it's immigrants, it's Jews, it's gay people (again) and trans people, it's hatred and distrust of particular groups because they can be singled out and blamed for whatever economic or societal ill they can be identified with, ills from which they are probably also suffering.

 

[Cervelo]

You also have to bear in mind that the average German back then didn't know that the 'deported' Jews were actually being exterminated.
And in fact extermination only became the official policy at the Wannsee Conference in early 1942.

From my understanding of what happened back then this is slightly inaccurate

The Nazi's from the start in the early 20's were very antisemitic, it was a popular thinking in Germany back then
The Nazis didn't invent or create this thinking, it had been around for at least 2000 years, all they did was perfect it and take it to new levels
and they started this from the early 20's in ever increasing levels of persecution until they invaded Poland and then there was a seismic change in policy

It simplified in to 3 steps from 33' to 39' was "You can not be a Jew" to "You can not be a Jew and live here" and finally "you can not live"
Each of these steps were prolonged and incremental and somewhat covert in where it was heading
Yes in the early years the Germans believed they were been deported as that was in fact what was happening, I believe half of the German Jewish population had emigrated before the invasion of Poland
But when Poland was invaded and definitely after the invasion or Russia the policy changed from deportation to extermination of not just Jewish people but anybody the Nazi's felt didn't fit in with their idea of the new world they were creating

Before the "Wannsee conference" more then a million jews had been killed by the death squads and gas vans and other methods
All the conference did was answer the "Jewish question" with the "Final solution" and escalate it to include reducing the population under Nazi control by killing any other people the Nazi's found undesirable

I think its unfair to label the whole German nation of people with this.

Yes I was been unfair in saying it was the "German nation" and all blame should be levelled at the Nazi's and their policy's
But again it's my understanding of the time the first two steps I mentioned above were popular with the German people
presumably because the German jews in the most part were actually been deported before 1939
But by the end of 42' it was widely known all over the world what was happening inside Germany and its occupied territories to Nazi undesirables
and its why I ask myself if I was alive during that time in Germany what would I have done in those circumstances

 

[MOB]

Reports of such surveys should not be given any credence in the Irish Times.

I am in a database of people who have agreed to take part in surveys. That is how these things work ( in my case, the European Business Confidence surveys, and occasional additional surveys). Sometimes I am asked to participate in a survey and there are pre-qual questions. Sometimes those questions rule me out.

Anyway, getting to the point. I don't know what quality controls were in place for this survey but it is certainly true that:

a) a sample size of 1000, properly chosen to be representative, can produce reliable data in Ireland
b) to get that reliable data, it is totally commonplace to take candidates from a database of people who have agreed to take part in surveys (as opposed to cold-calling).