EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

pguyo

Frequent Poster
Messages
75
Yes that is very wrong. If the VBR was not a tracker they should have indicated that they were not offering what you were looking for!
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
that's was exactly what my broker said - he said if there was an issue with a request that he faxed in - then it would be normal that he would be contacted by a bank and advised of any issues and asked to make adjustments accordingly, eg fill in more paperwork, look for a new offer from another supplier etc - there is nothing on file with ebs detailing any response to the request for tracker except a new loan offer
??
 

YerGrand

Registered User
Messages
27
Not looking great for EBS VBR cohort. Latest from PK is EBS resistant to inclusion, the CB investigation is concluded and it will now be on a case by case basis.
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
Hi YerGrand
- that is not reflected as far as I heard in the Finance Committee meeting this morning
- by the tone of those on the committee I think they believe that this is far from concluded and that the banks continue to treat customers with total disdain
- I would strongly urge people to write directly to the Central Bank - they unequivocally said today that they review and take seriously all correspondence sent into them..

I would also urge people to contact the finance committee and ask them to look for concrete answers / EVIDENCE on what was a VARIABLE BASE RATE from EBS and Haven mortgages in the years around 2008.

and yes if proper pressure is not put on now by the people affected .....then yes this cohort will be ignored so i would really urge everyone on with these dodgy loans from EBS that magically / conveniently turned into a SVR in mid 2008 i.e VARIABLE BASE RATE and who most likely have a dodgy loan document - with missing details and completely lacking of any definition of the rate 'variable base' .......start making noise

Also note John McGuiness referred specifically to the behaviour of EBS in 2008

he had an email in which they instructed their agents and how outrageous this behavior was - basically they they told them to go and sell mortgages no matter what and they set an expectation of much they were expected to generate etc
 

YerGrand

Registered User
Messages
27
Hi YerGrand
- that is not reflected as far as I heard in the Finance Committee meeting this morning
- by the tone of those on the committee I think they believe that this is far from concluded and that the banks continue to treat customers with total disdain
- I would strongly urge people to write directly to the Central Bank - they unequivocally said today that they review and take seriously all correspondence sent into them..

I would also urge people to contact the finance committee and ask them to look for concrete answers / EVIDENCE on what was a VARIABLE BASE RATE from EBS and Haven mortgages in the years around 2008.

and yes if proper pressure is not put on now by the people affected .....then yes this cohort will be ignored so i would really urge everyone on with these dodgy loans from EBS that magically / conveniently turned into a SVR in mid 2008 i.e VARIABLE BASE RATE and who most likely have a dodgy loan document - with missing details and completely lacking of any definition of the rate 'variable base' .......start making noise

Also note John McGuiness referred specifically to the behaviour of EBS in 2008

he had an email in which they instructed their agents and how outrageous this behavior was - basically they they told them to go and sell mortgages no matter what and they set an expectation of much they were expected to generate etc
Haven't seen the Finance Committee meeting yet will have to wait for replay. That is interesting, thanks for the highlights. If the Committee can apply pressure then that is only a good thing. I already asked the Committee to ask what the VBR is, it's a pity they didn't ask the CB today. PK sent that update only yesterday saying that it would be case by case for EBS but he wasn't giving up.
 

Ford5610

Registered User
Messages
11
On Fri of last week, I emailed my local TD and ask him to raise it as a PQ. I asked for definition as to what Variable Base Rate Mortgage was in 2007. I also cc the CB and EBS.

I am also in the process of switching mortgages as we are feed up of EBS high interest rates.
 

YerGrand

Registered User
Messages
27
On Fri of last week, I emailed my local TD and ask him to raise it as a PQ. I asked for definition as to what Variable Base Rate Mortgage was in 2007. I also cc the CB and EBS.

I am also in the process of switching mortgages as we are feed up of EBS high interest rates.
That's a good idea, I will do this too with my local TD.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
I saw bits of the CBI appearance. McGuinness mentioned that he had seen a 2008 e-mail from EBS telling brokers to do what ever was necessary to sell a mortgage to customers and this was acknowledged to exist by the CBI. I’ll have to look at the transcript when it’s released.

The CBI seem to confirm that they have concluded their investigation of EBS but had to be pushed by McGuinness to confirm that. Looks like it’s onto the ombudsman. Surprised that the CBI didn’t side with the VBR cohort considering the amount of evidence and this e-mail that confirms EBS were telling brokers to essentially mis sell an ambiguously named product like the VBR i.e. short term goal to sell it as a tracker but make the contract ambiguous enough so as to leave wiggle room to make it whatever product suits EBS in the long term.
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
I spoke to a solicitor yesterday on this and the continuing holding letters from EBS - Their opinion was to continue on to the ombudsman without enduring any further delay - they said that the EBS have had more than enough time to make a decision and that sending out these holding letters should not be used as a way to delay our cases with the ombudsman - after a sufficient waiting period which we have all accepted but with no response from EBS then we must look to move on to the ombudsman.

Also just to say this extended waiting without response is also likely ( and perhaps designed) to wear people down so they do not proceed any further.

I was told statistics by someone a few weeks ago of how another bank was expecting XXX people to fall off and not to proceed by giving them large items of paperwork to fill out - laborious information to fill out that was unclear and confusing. Once this was done further efforts would be required on those people - until they would be substantially whittled down
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
The issue of relationship & communication between EBS & tied agents was raised at the CBI committee meeting during the week. The Finance Oireachtas committee actually met an EBS tied agent in June. I’ve attached examples of what he said and how he and other tied agents were instructed to sell products including VBR mortgages.

It all sounds very similar to what posters have been disclosing in this forum. A trusted broker/agent used to oversell a dodgy loan offer. Again really surprised that the Central Bank aren’t addressing this considering the evidence. The relationship between the agent/broker and EBS seems to have been a way for EBS to get past the review without further damage.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Themurph

New Member
Messages
9
Hi has anyone got any new information on the "variable base rate cohort "its being a while since I've seen a new posting just cheeking I emailed Michael mcgrath and was told its still an issue the the bank have to answer yet.cheers
 

Bill2018

Registered User
Messages
12
No haven't heard a thing .I rang the Financial service ombudsman as my complaint is on hold so it still seems to be an issue. The central bank review was supposed to be complete by the end of year not looking likely now and nothing can proceed until they are finished the review
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
254
I thought Kissane had said the CBI had come to the conclusion that VBR customers were deemed not impacted and the only show in town now was ombudsman? Perhaps more evidence has come to light and this cohort are back on the table? Or political pressure has put it back on the CBI review agenda?
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
Does anyone know if EBS deem me not impacted can I then take my case to the ombudsman
- I took my mortgage out in 2008 - but i only realized last November I was misled - that tracker mortgages were in fact available in july 2008 - while I was told one was not available to me at that time ?
 

YerGrand

Registered User
Messages
27
haveaniceday, that's the road we are taking. EBS said our VBR is not impacted and even though we've lots of paperwork that indicates a tracker they are still saying no. As I understand it, CB investigation is over and PK is going case by case on EBS. It is just so wrong and the system is still stacked against customers and protecting the banks.
 

haveaniceday

Frequent Poster
Messages
134
I got my letter from EBS stating they deem me not impact and this is their final response.
In short
1) I requested a change from a fixed rate offer they had already given me to a tracker - in jan 2008. ( via a mortgage broker)
2) On foot of this they send me a new loan offer - the terminology used was 'a variable base rate'.

They deem me not impacted as I had not filled out specifically an ' application for a tracker mortgage rate'.

The first thing that springs to mind is -

-)I never asked for a SVR - I asked for a tracker - so why did I get a new loan offer called 'variable base rate' ?

AND why did this not require a new application to be filled out?

I think this is a nonsense response to say the least and EBS are literally getting away with this
 
Last edited:

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
206
Hi haveaniceday, yes they have been getting away with it and unfortunately they continue to. Youre situation sounds worse than my partners in that you asked for a tracker. My partner otherwise got the same letter but she was never advised of the existence of a tracker even though EBS alleged in their final resonse letter that they were widely available and advertised which sounds like rubbish. How could you fill out a tracker request form if you didnt know about them or werent advised to go on one. She is currently still waiting on a response to a 2nd SARS requests for information they didnt send out the last time before going to Padraig Kissane. That request was sent in in early October so a call will be made today about this as were anxious to get into to PK asap.
 
Top