EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by tonymac, 31 Jan 2018.

  1. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Have you sent that information to the CBI or are you bringing your case to the financial ombudsman? Variable base (tracker)is the variable basis on the fixed rate EBS contracts between 2004-2008.

    Variable base(tracker) rate turned into an SVR sometime around mid 2008. Still surprises me the CBI let this one through.
     
  2. Spires

    Spires New Member

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    No haven’t sent this anywhere just found this thread & posting here for advise to see if it’s worth doing something with and if so what should I do?
     
  3. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi Spires - That very similar to my situation and in the very same month, jan 2008, I requested a tracker mortgage and following this request I was given an amended loan offer in FEB 2008 of a variable base rate 5.25% ( i also went through an EBS broker and my broker was also pushing that I get a fixed loan offer at that time)

    have you looked for / got a response from EBS on why you are not on tracker ?

    It might really be worth emailing the details of your situation to the CBI - who don't seem to be yet - taking on board the EBS variable base rate / it was actually a tracker situation.

    your situation where you have the letter I think is a pretty big deal :) i.e only two choices with ebs variable or fixed and the letter stating ebs variable tracker rate was 5.25%
     
  4. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    No harm sending info into CBI but I think in terms of them doing anything about it that ship has sailed. Better to contact Padraic Kissane ASAP.
     
  5. Spires

    Spires New Member

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    just contacted ebs. Person I spoke to has logged a complaint for me but doesn’t think much of my complaint as at end of my fixed I didn’t write in to be put on tracker!! Loan offer (01/08) says I should have went to variable base letter from ebs after fixed (01/09) only gave me two options svr or fix again no variable base! I’ll send my info to Paudi Kissane too and cbi after I get a response from ebs?
     
  6. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi Spires -

    The times I called the 'EBS Helpline' I was told something pretty disingenuous stuff as well e.g. the reason you don't have a tracker is all your brokers fault nothing to do with EBS.
    They also referred to the broker I used as my 'chosen intermediary' - that made me laugh - he was part of the EBS broker network and far from a stranger to EBS - they all seemed very 'chummy in 2008' - he was a broker who worked with EBS and I am sure he brought them a lot of business and did very well of out the commissions.

    re:write in for a tracker - was this a policy of ebs at the time - have you been provided with information/ T&C's regarding this policy so you would have known to write in
    - if not
    - its really concerning that someone on the 'EBS helpline' is giving you this type of 'guidance' - guidance that might make you decide its would be pointless to pursue this -

    I am thinking I might go back and find out if my calls were recorded and then make a complaint re the information I was given

    I wonder how many other people have called the EBS helpline and got this type of information and as a result not followed this up

    does giving out information over a bank helpline that is not true - is this breaking any laws?
    who regulations this?
     
  7. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    EBS advertising as Mortgage Masters

    I have noticed a lot of people here have mentioned how much EBS calling themselves 'mortgage masters' has really grated based on their actual experiences dealing with EBS and their mortgages - see https://www.asai.ie/

    The Advertising Standards Authority for Ireland says

    All marketing communications should be legal, decent, honest and truthful.

    If you are concerned that an advertisement breaches the Code, let us know by making a complaint.

    it looks pretty straightforward
    https://www.asai.ie/make-a-complaint/make-a-complaint/

     
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  8. Trackman

    Trackman Registered User

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    Last edited: 22 Dec 2018
    I’ve been following this thread for a number of months. We recently received notification that our account has been impacted.

    We had a tracker application with a margin above ecb rate @ 1.25%. The Loan Offer had Variable Base Rate of 4%(No mention of margin or tracker rate) The 4% in the Loan Offer was the ECB rate of 2.75% at the time of draw down plus the 1.25% margin combined.

    In 2008 they moved us to a Standard Variable rate. We never fixed. In EBS’s letter they contend it was an administrative error and we were placed on a Standard Variable rate from draw down.

    We had complained to the Central Bank outlining our case, got a TD to make representations to EBS on our behalf, employed Padraic Kissane and called to our local EBS branch manager on a monthly basis looking for answers.

    This thread has been a great aid in pursuing EBS and helped maintain our resolve to see this out.

    Still a long road ahead but I want to say thank you to everyone here.

    I hope this can help others and my advice is to leave no stone unturned in pursuing the banks.

    Trackman
     
    Last edited: 22 Dec 2018
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  9. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Am delighted for you trackman that youve been deemed impacted and it gives everyone else on this site hope that a resolution will indeed arrive to this issue. My partners mortgage though had it as a condition of her mortgage that she go on an initial 3 year fixed rate and despite the letter of offer stating shed go onto a VBR with no margin actually stated after this period she ended ip magically on a SVR despite her offer letter having no such terminology. The VBR just happened to track ECB at the same rate +1.25% above and i cannot for the life of me understand why the CB hasnt already deemed this cohort impacted. She has received a letter from EBS stating that she isnt deemed impacted and one of the reasons for this they say is she didnt sign a tracker application form. Thing is how could she when it was made a condition of her getting the mortgage that she go on a 3 yr fixed rate. She wasalso told that trackers were well advertised and available but shes told me she never heard of them until i said it to her about this VBR stuff as i found it strange that she was on an SVR despite this type of mortgage only coming into being long after she took out her mortgage.
     
  10. Trackman

    Trackman Registered User

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    Last edited: 22 Dec 2018
    HI Tonymac

    Thank you. I didn't intend to hijack the thread only posted here because it has the most coverage with similar cases.

    It's only a matter of time before it all unravels for EBS. All the smaller cohorts deemed impacted during this review will surely provide enough evidence for people to go to the FSPO. Such a shame your partners case was not impacted by EBS. Dont give up and best of luck.
     
    Last edited: 22 Dec 2018
  11. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Hi trackman, thats not a bother at all, any contributions are more than welcome im sure Brendan would agree as the information on this thread will prove invaluable for all of us. Nobody giving up here certainly not until we get it into PK for a look and his opinion which is the plan early in the new year.Hopefully it will start unravelling in the new year
     
  12. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Very encouraging news. Congratulations Trackman. Your case is the first variable base rate loan offer that I have seen to be deemed impacted. The administrative error excuse is merely an attempt by EBS to avoid contagion and redress for more Variable Base Rate customers.
     
  13. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Trackman-so they moved you from your tracker rate(variable base rate) to a standard variable rate in 2008 but then said that actually you were wrongly put on the SVR from the start of your mortgage thereby now implying that the variable base rate was actually a SVR? Haha. As Tonymac said I can’t believe the CBI didn’t see through this nonsense.

    What are the chances that the same “administrative error” happened in mid 2008 to 1000’s of Variable Base Rate customers? This thread has clearly shown that said “administrative error” occurred in mid 2008 when the variable base rate(tracker) was changed by EBS to a SVR but they are using the tracker application form as route out of paying redress to those thousands.

    There is no administrative error across all of these accounts & it was a very deliberate attempt to take customers off their tracker rates. Somebody in EBS at the time made this call to change the rate on their system & I hope the CBI find out who & pass info on to the authorities if necessary.
     
  14. Trackman

    Trackman Registered User

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    Last edited: 23 Dec 2018
    Hi B26354

    Thank you. Yes you hit the nail on the head. So EBS can no longer argue that the Variable Base rate was a SVR.

    By admitting to an administrative error from draw down they will end up paying far more compensation and redress to customers essentially to avoid criminal charges.
    If they conceded they put us on a different product 2 years later without consent they would be in serious bother.
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2018
  15. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hey Trackman - great news - congratulations- nice present for Christmas - and well done on your persistence.
    Just wondering - during all this did ebs send you letters saying you were deemed not impacted or did you get a letter to say you were impacted?


    loving the 'administrative error' excuse - rather strange error - to accidentally move you from one product to another for no reason, of courses mistakes are made all the time, except for the lucky fact that it meant banks could then take 100s more euros off you each month, and then you had drag it out of them to them 'rectify the error' ?

    amazing how hard it was for you to have a bank who promises 'to put right their failures' to just simply 'rectify an error' ??

    It would be great to hear about accidental errors where the customer ended up paying 100s of euros less each month on their mortgages- i wonder how often that happened.

    I don't see during all this who is experiencing the Banks treating them with anything other than contempt and I thought the CBI had 'strongly' directed them otherwise, that a big culture shift was required - yet I don't see how anything has changed in the last year.


    The answer EBS gave me was so insulting to my intelligence and that was after making me wait 6 months. My relative received the same treatment, months and months later they told her - it was a mistake on their side that her contract stated she must have completed a tracker application form to get her loan which was of course a 'variable base rate'.

    Am I missing something - i though the banks treatment of customers was too change? I thought they were 'really sorry', and now we would deal with contrite organisations who were going to make good for all the stress, pain and suffering they had caused people..............

    this is the message on the ebs website .... for real .... seriously what a joke...

    Message from Group CEO Bernard Byrne

    “On behalf of the Bank, I apologise to customers for these failures, which should not have happened and which we now intend to put right. I also want to assure customers that we are taking this issue very seriously and while we have made very significant progress, we are and will continue to do everything we can to reach a conclusion as soon as possible.”
     
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  16. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    The vast majority of customers on a variable base rate rolled onto it after a fixed rate. Your case is important as it shows that EBS moved you off a tracker rate in 2008. This thread has shown that EBS also moved others off their tracker rate at this point but most would have been locked into a fixed rate at the time. Alan Merriman has said it was EBS policy to push customers towards fixed rates.

    Trackman-have they given you the exact date when they moved you from your tracker to SVR? Info from multiple sources on this thread indicates this change occurred somewhere around May-July 2008 and this is when we were all moved from the tracker rate to SVR on their system. So the variable basis of our loan was changed while we were still on fixed rate. This seemed to involve the margin deviating from the ECB base rate +1.25% to a higher margin.
     
  17. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    A number of posters such as haveaniceday requested a tracker in early 2008 & were then sent a variable base rate loan offer by EBS. By mid 2008 EBS then informed customers that the variable base loan offer was not a tracker anymore. Evidence is pretty clear that this mid 2008 period is when EBS intentionally & strategically changed the variable base rate (tracker) to a SVR. Cases like haveanice & trackman merely illuminate this switch because they weren’t on a fixed rate.
     
  18. Trackman

    Trackman Registered User

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    Last edited: 24 Dec 2018
    B26354

    They say our mortgage broker submitted a tracker application on our behalf in June 2006 and that they failed to act on this hence we were issued with a 'Variable Interest Rate Loan Offer'

    I know we started on a tracker rate because the monthly payments never stacked up to being a SVR at the time. In fact an SVR was not available then.

    From draw down in 2006 to 2014 our repayments increased by 50%.

    Its just a bit of luck we got a copy of the tracker application and we didn't fix during that period.
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2018
  19. Themurph

    Themurph New Member

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    Happy christmas to all on this thread
     
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  20. Bill2018

    Bill2018 Registered User

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    Anyone heard any more? I rang fspo today and they said my case was still with investigations should I be getting back onto the central bank or who?