EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

Hi Deansmith27

re what you said here:

I signed for a tracker but I also received another document from sars recently which shows a variable base rate of 4% which coincides with the tracker margin of 1.25% and the ecb rate at the time.

do you have a copy of the application form where you signed for the tracker?

and then do you have a loan agreement calling the loan a ' variable base rate?
 
Hi Deansmith27

re what you said here:

I signed for a tracker but I also received another document from sars recently which shows a variable base rate of 4% which coincides with the tracker margin of 1.25% and the ecb rate at the time.

do you have a copy of the application form where you signed for the tracker?

and then do you have a loan agreement calling the loan a ' variable base rate?

Hi haveaniceday

My bad. I have a ''Issue of loan cheque'' document which has just the words ''Base Rate''

See both files here.

So far Ebs have been unable to provide me with first page of the original loan agreement so I cannot say yet but will
update when I get it.
 

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Haveaniceday

Sorry about images but cannot show other pers info

I received the loan agreement today. The only rate shown are on the ''Issue of loan cheque'' & ''File Summary-Completed Loan'' documents

''Issue of loan cheque'' shows Rate of interest: 4.00% Base rate (APR 4.1%)

''File Summary-Completed Loan'' shows Rate basis: 4.00% Variable Base.

Hope this clears things up.
 

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Hi Deansmith27
re this

'So far Ebs have been unable to provide me with first page of the original loan agreement so I cannot say yet but will'

Seriously they don't have this on file - this being the page that says what type of a loan you have - like fixed for xx years at this rate, then moving on to a xxx rate - are you saying they have told you they don't have this - that is CRAZY?
 
Hi all, just letting ye know my partner got a final response letter from EBS which states that she is not impacted and that it would be the final letter she would receive from them. In it they say" she chose to avail of an EBS mortgage through an appointed EBS intermediary and that as such no EBS staff met or had any contact with her nor did EBS offer product advice or sell the product directly to her". It goes on to say that at the time she applied for the mortgage, tracker interest rates were available as an option for her(in addition to a range of other interest rate options). It says that these options were also publically advertised and available and that it was her decision as to which optionshe applied for and the obligation rests with her as the customer to advise her intermediary accordingly. It goes on to say that if she wished to avail of a tracker interest rate that a separate ttracker mortgage rate application form was required to be completed and that EBS tracker interest rates were widely available on private dwelling house mortgages from 31/3/04-13/10/08. It then goes on to state that sheapplied for a fixed rate mortgage and that on expiry the loan will convert to the applicable variable rate then prevailing and the interest rate basis will be specifiedin the loan offer letter issued by EBS. It later says that the applicable variable rate on expiry of the 3 yr fixed rate was in fact 3.23% as per the 2010 annual loan statement which i for one dont recall seeing in the SARS documentation sent to her. It then says their "Standard/Base Prevailing Variable Interest Rates are not linked to nor do they track the ECB rate and that it is at EBS discretion whether to increase or decrease these interest rates. It also says thatif she had applied for a tracker rate her loan offer would have stated the interest rate basis as the variable ECB Base plus an apllicable margin. With a trackermortgage the margin is linked to a specific index or indicies and remains constant for a specified period. It also states that 'the EBS Standard/Variable/Prevailing Interest rates are not linked to ECB and that she can take a complaint to the FSPO if dis-satisfied.
Dis-satisfied is putting it mildly, she is furious with the way the letter is done and she feels theyre treating her in it. Appears to me like some said on this forum that theyre blaming the brokers. For starters a 3 year fixed rate is put in her documentation as a condition of her getting the mortgage and i when seeing it felt she was left with no choice. Secondly they say these trackers were widely available and advertised, if so im open to anyone her telling me that was the case. Thirdly my partner like most wouldnt have had much knowledge of what to do here or what to go for, both tracker and variable were the same rate if i remember correctly back then. Fourtly the only refetence to an interest rate basis in her offer letter is that it would convert to a "Variable base rate",the VBR ,but there is no reference to a "Standard/Base/Prevailing Variable Interest Rate". The word standard doesnt appear in her contract, she is now on an SVR. They never once referred to what i stated about the VBR exactly tracking at ECB +1.25% which a few on here have said they have done also. Finally as were away next week she has agreed to get in touch with Padraig Kissane on our return but that if he agrees with EBS's letter after reviewing her documentation that will be the end of it. Sorry about the length of this but as there are others on this site in a similar position i wanted to give a good grasp of whats happening. Any comments or opinions on whether people feel EBS are right or otherwise i do welcome.
 
Hi that is practically word for word the letter I received I also feel angry now were and I mean nowhere in my documents did it say standard variable rate ,I was also told by the broker when I took ot the mortgage that ebs would only offer me a fixed to start with its gas they never mention that the ok"ed me for 7 times my salary alone one earner as my wife is a house wife and did not hold a job and then stress test me for 1% more at 6.85% meaning I would owe each month 68% of my earnings try getting a mortgage with that of ebs todayjust finished another Standard financial statement so they can say there helping me, by just adding it to my capital so the loan gets bigger and they make more off me ,sick of it work all yuor life anb all I want is to be given a fair deal .ps all over the news bank profits are up.
 
EBS will blame the brokers but problem is that there is documentation from multiple brokers that offer definitions of the variable base rate and it’s link to the ECB rate & at a margin.

Are EBS suggesting that different brokers have all come up with the term variable base rate and it’s link to and margin above ECB rate? Can’t see the CBI buying that or Kissane giving up the fight yet on this.

I got same letter and pleasantly surprised that they went as far as to say the variable base rate is not even linked to the ECB base rate as it can be easily proven that is linked to that rate using pre 2008 EBS documentation & broker info (see attached). The EBS rate change document was sent to a Variable Base Rate customer.
 

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Back then banks did not have to stress test a 3 or 5 year fixed rate at the same level of a tracker or variable rate, hence if your income did not qualify you for the variable rate, they suggested a fixed rate
 
Just to remind you all - I requested ebs to change my loan offer from a fixed to a tracker in jan 08 - i sent this request to my broker in an email - he faxed the request to ebs ( i have the copy of the fax ) on foot of this request ebs then send me a new loan offer - a variable base rate - this is the offer I signed understanding I was signing for a tracker?
On check drawdown they told me the tracker was no longer available

so I am waiting for an explanation on this - called ebs yesterday to ask them how is it possible that I am looking for answers on this for nearly a year ...they said it takes time ( why) but their big new was that apparently KPMG? are looking at it now ( KPMG WTF) - who the hell are kpmg to look into this anyway - what a load of crap what qualifies them to look at this - i would seriously like to know - this piece of information was told to me like i should be impressed by KPMG -

so we are all asking the same question about the base rate

and so it would seem that KPMG - - are not doing their job - i.e detailing to you in the letter - a basic proof in simple terms that the base rate is not the tracker we all believed we were being sold ?

its so simple ...where is the definition on the loan documents for what is a base rate - I understand EBS customer have managed to provide definitions in writing so why are these being ignored - there was even a defination published by Mortgageireland.ie at time - ?

how can KPMG, EBS or the CB or anyone explain these loans
or try and rename then as 'standard' even though the word stand does not appear on anyone's loan documents?

(For a year now I have been seeking and have not been given the terms and conditions of my loan which should contain a definition of what a base rate is - according to sars EBS don't have it ? how will KPMG explain my missing documentation - its apparently pretty much all missing)


Looks to me that EBS have employed KPMG to come up with the very clever idea of renaming their base rate product

i.e putting the word standard with a '/' in front of the word base

and then to make it even better add in the word Prevailing after base?


but really ...does this not make them look even more foolish, more inept, seeing as absolutely nowhere in my documents do any of these words appear ....

Standard/Base Prevailing Variable Interest Rates
 
Hi all has anyone got an idea what padraic kissane's opinion on the variable base rate argument is, id love to know because I feel this is just been forgotten about.
 
Hi all has anyone got an idea what padraic kissane's opinion on the variable base rate argument is, id love to know because I feel this is just been forgotten about.
PK’s opinion on the Variable Base Rate attached. Central Bank haven’t signed off on this yet & still examining evidence.
 

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The update I got in August from the parties involved was that the Central Bank were still investigating this matter and it would run until the end of the year.

Brendan-Have you recently heard there is movement on the Central Banks position on this EBS cohort as is the case with PTSB?
 
Received an update last week from Ebs saying the review could take a number of months.

I complained to Ebs and the Central Bank about this as I identified a potential overcharge issue on my account a number of weeks ago. (Started on tracker, never fixed, have variable base rate in loan offer, ended up on a SVR)

The Central Bank Principles for lenders when relevant issues are identified for redress

When a relevant issue is identified, lenders to adhere to the following principles:

1. Stopping further harm to impacted customers

1.1. The Central Bank has already set out its expectation of lenders in respect of stopping the harm for potential issues as part of its communication of 23 June 2015 and subsequent follow-up communications.

1.2. The lender is to ensure that any harm potentially being caused to impacted customers is stopped at the earliest possible time after a potential issue is identified.

1.3. In addition, the lender is to cease charging the incorrect rates of interest to potentially impacted cohorts of customer accounts, to apply correct rates of interest to those accounts after each cohort is identified and to inform
the Central Bank in advance of doing so.

In my case I clearly identified the overcharge to the bank. They have not stopped further harm instead saying an independent party must identify me as impacted which may take MONTHS.
 
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If the variable base rate contracts are not ambiguous why is it taking a year for EBS, KPMG & the Central Bank to agree with each other that customers with these contacts are not on tracker rate & the review can now be concluded?
 
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