EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

Discussion in 'Tracker Redress' started by tonymac, 31 Jan 2018.

  1. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Last edited: 1 Dec 2018
    Please again see this
    Online homeloan application available on the EBS website in 2007 November

    http://online.ebs.ie/internet/pdffiles/public/ebsmortgagerepaymentform.pdf

    see attached


    Have a look - there is no option on this application form to apply for a SVR - its is simply not there - the only option is for the tracker

    how are so many customers from EBS from this time period with homeloans referring to 'variable base rate' mortgages - have what ebs have now decided to call Svrs
     

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    Last edited: 1 Dec 2018
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  2. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Politicians like McGrath saying they are still waiting on EBS to answer questions on the VBR rate; CBI saying there are still likely to be more customers identified in the investigation; PK now stating that the variable basis of all mortgages between 2004-2008 was the ECB base rate.

    I was of the opinion that the CBI were winding down their investigation & this cohort had been deemed by them to be not impacted....and the only chance for redress for the VBR cohort was the ombudsman. Not so sure now.
     
  3. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi Tonymac re

    but she was never advised of the existence of a tracker even though EBS alleged in their final response letter that they were widely available and advertised

    So On this -
    1. see attached the ebs application form from late 2007 - only rate mentioned here is EBS fixed and tracker - the application does NOT enable you to you apply for a SVR - in fact there is not any mention of SVR on the application form - only tracker rate
    2. my relative was told in april 2008 EBS trackers were no longer available and she was given another application form ( she had previously filled out the tracker application form) - the new EBS mortgage application form she filled out was for a fixed for 2 years - no choice was provided on this form as to what rate she could choose once the 2 year fixed rate expired -

    why would the form not provide the applicant the option to select a EBS tracker or EBS SVR once the period had expired - as they were available?


    I am waiting to get a copy of it but I believe the april 2008 EBS mortgage application form may say that after 2 years the fixed with then go onto a base/ tracker rate

    I would suggest if you have not asked yet request a copy of the application form?
     

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  4. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Hi haveaniceday, just to fill you in they did send her a copy of the original 3 yr fixed application she signed on 30/4/07 in her original SARS application but as we hope to get this into PK asap the letter outlining her options after she came off the initial 3 yr fixed rate in 2010 is needed and this wasnt sent in the initial request. Her loan offet letter does say that she will revert to the VBR (currently 5%) afyer the initial 3 yr period. Since then though shes been on SVR despite this term not appearing on her loan offer letter as an interest rate basis or option. She was also advised in 2007 that a 3 yr initial fixed rate was a condition of her getting the mortgage. She was never aware of the existance of trackers and from what i can gather they werent as widely available or advertised as EBS allege. Finally from.research ive done myself it appears that the VBR did track ECB at 1.25% above even though it doesnt actually say it in her loan offer letter ECB+××%. The ECB rate wentto 3.75% on 14/3/07 and my partner started her mortgage in may 2007. Another contributor on this site, could even be yourself got a loan offer letter with currently 5.25% or 5.5% on it and he started his in july or august 2007. The ECB rate went up to 4% on 13/6/07 after my partners but before this contributor started his and it then went up to 4.25% on 13/7/07.This to me is a lot more than a co-incidence and ive a feeling when you keep digging theryll be other contributors who will have similar experiences.
     
  5. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi Tony mac - does the application form she filled in, in 07 not say what she will transfer to after the fixed loan period has expired or even give her an option to fill in the details for the tracker ?
    i would ask them where was the option on the fixed rate application form to choose to opt either for the tracker/ or the SVR once she came off the fixed rate?
    obviously in 2010 given the option she was going to opt for a tracker ?
    what date was on the loan offer letter which stated the VBR rate was currently 5%
     
  6. pguyo

    pguyo Frequent Poster

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    tonymac,

    This is what my wife received at the end of her 3 year fixed rate period circa May 2011. It states that she will revert back automatically to the current variable rate and it states "variable" in the table.
     

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  7. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Hi pguyo, that is different to what my partners 2007 loan offer letter says, it says she'll revert to the variable base rate(currently 5%) at the end of her initial 3 yr fixed term. The form you show appears to be the one im looking for which they would have sent to her in April/May 2010 near the end of the initial 3 yr term. Ive a feeling it may well say the same as youre wifes one but if so theyve clearly for me breached contract as theres no reference to an SVR in her original loan offer which i know my partners been on since then. I only realised this when i was active in the fair mortgage rates campaign and after id learned a bit about this whole area from that. Can i ask what does youre wifes letter of offer from 2008 have on it regarding what she'll revert to after the 3 yr period, our arguement is that the SVR doesnt appear on the original letters of offer whereas thats what people are now on whereas our arguement is that the VBR tracked ECB in my partners case at exactly 1.25% above ECB and the SVR is not linked to ECB which is the way EBS want it.
    Hi haveaniceday, hope the above answers some of youre questions, ill be going througb her documents ans speaking to her later on so ill let you know later on re the other answers. It does say she will revert to the VBR(currently 5%) though, ill get the date for you later this evening but im quite sure it was April 2007.
     
  8. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi Tonymac - have you written to the central bank on this - based on all the info provided in this post I to date I cannot understand how the CBI have not picked up on this very strange thing called the EBS variable base rate - or rather the amazing chameleon rate -
     
  9. pguyo

    pguyo Frequent Poster

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    Tonymac,

    She got 2 offer letters as the rates changed after the first offer letter. It also mentions she would revert to VBR. the VBR rate of 5.33% is the second letter around May 08 I think. The first one was around Feb/March 08
     

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  10. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    PK now seems to be arguing that the variable basis for these loans(and every bank loan between 2004-2008) is ECB base rate. I think that’s why EBS didn’t offer SVR’s where they could change the variable basis of these loans as all loans tracked the ECB base rate.

    What EBS did was slowly change the margin from mid 2008 onwards and from 2012 (approx) AIB/EBS confirmed that the variable basis of their SVR was no longer dependent on the ECB base rate. The argument we are making is the the inclusion of the term “variable base rate” (and other evidence) on EBS loans between 2004-2008 suggests the variable basis of our loans should be the ECB base rate...but it’s not.
     
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  11. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Hi haveaniceday, getting back to you as promised, the date on the loan offer is 3/4/07 and i can confirm it says after 3 years it says VBR(currently 5%). From talking to her she waz never offered a tracker. She has asked for that letter to be sent out and ive heard since speaking to you earlier that theyve told her they cant find a 2010 letter, how convenient for them.
     
  12. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Good work Haveaniceday. I think Razvan made a similar point earlier in the thread. Confirmation that the only variable rate option for EBS loans during this period was tracker. I must get back in touch with EBS & my broker to see if they have this loan application on file...I already know the answer but worth the query anyway.
     
  13. haveaniceday

    haveaniceday Frequent Poster

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    Hi There - I just saw this in another thread and though it was really worth posting here for 2 reasons
    ...... see attached image all bank rate in june 2007-

    1) EBS has no mention of SVR only variable, only one variable product in the list however 6 tracker options available defined by LTV
    ( on the EBS website at the time this Variable rate was not listed under their homeloan section )


    2
    in the list of rates - all banks with predominately TRACKER products and the also note BOI and other banks actually state their rates as

    ecb + .70%

    BUT ebs DO not
    instead they show the total rate at that time
    e.g

    5.10%
    - a format which corresponds EXACTLY with how the rate is displayed on our loan offers

    if this is the rate they are distributing for circulation is it not entirely reasonable to expect this to be the rate also showing on our loan offers


    ___________________________________________________________

    If one subscribes to the Irish Times one can review the mortgage rates at any particular point in time as they were always reported in the Thursday Property Supplement.

    Here are the rates from June 2007:
     

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  14. mortgage2015

    mortgage2015 Registered User

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    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
    Folks
     
    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
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  15. B26354

    B26354 Frequent Poster

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    Very good news.

    Where you on a fixed mortgage that rolled onto a variable base rate? Evidence seems to suggest that the tracker rate was the only variable rate available when those fixed rate customers started their mortgage between 2004 & 2008. Strong argument that variable basis of these loans is tracker.
     
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  16. tonymac

    tonymac Frequent Poster

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    Great news and the very best of luck with it. Fingers crossed that this is coming towards a good ending for us. Little did i think for a minute when i wrote this threads first posting almost a year ago that it would be heading towards 500 postings.
     
  17. mortgage2015

    mortgage2015 Registered User

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    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
    Let's see.
     
    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
  18. mortgage2015

    mortgage2015 Registered User

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    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
    I think
     
    Last edited: 9 Dec 2018
  19. Spires

    Spires New Member

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    I signed up to a 1 yr fixed mortgage issue of loan cheque dated 10/1/08. This states after 1 year interest rate will be variable base rate currently 5.25%.
    I also have a copy of letter from my brokers dated 25/10/07 with reasons why they recommended fixed rate and not a variable tracker rate also states I only had two choices with ebs variable or fixed. This letter states ebs variable tracker rate was 5.25%. The ebs loan offer dated 25/10/17 states after 1 year I would revert to variable base of 5.25%. From my brokers letter it would appear that variable tracker was variable base.
     
  20. Spires

    Spires New Member

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    In addition to above I’ve found my letter for end of fixed rate dated 13/1/09 only giving me two options 1. Revert to current standard variable rate 2. Fix again.