EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?
- Thread starter tonymac
- Start date
Oh yes I know that. But both the EBS fixed to variable base rate & “tracker” loan offers don’t use the word tracker. They both use the word variable & both refer to a base rate.
Just want to update as promised i have emailed the ebs review and asked some questions about the mortgage and requested answerd as i said i would but i ccd the central bank with the same email so hooefully im not the first to do this and the CB will hopefully soon get wind of problems with EBS and start dealing with them properly, will update when replies appear.
I received another “holding letter.” Each monthly letter states that EBS are making progress in resolving the matter. Obviously not.
In March Kissane stated that there were 3000 EBS customers who should be returned to their tracker rate & redressed (see attached). 500 EBS customers have since been redressed...just the 2500 variable base customers to be sorted so.
In March Kissane stated that there were 3000 EBS customers who should be returned to their tracker rate & redressed (see attached). 500 EBS customers have since been redressed...just the 2500 variable base customers to be sorted so.
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deansmith27
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Received same. A no info letter!
Nearly every definition of a “base rate” that I’ve seen refers to a link to a central bank rate or changes in a customers interest rate that is contingent upon changes in a central bank rate.
The definition of the variable base rate released to EBS appointed brokers such as Mortgage Ireland.ie in 2006 refers to rate changes that are dependent on the rates of the Central Bank i.e. ECB base rate (see attached)
An Irish banks SVR’s pre 2008 would also have been linked to a central bank rate but with a SVR the bank could change their rate at their own discretion and there is no reference to any particular base rate on a customers loan offer/contract.
The problem for EBS is that their variable base rate customers are now on SVR’s and AIB/EBS have confirmed that changes to their SVR are not linked to changes to the ECB base rate (see attached). So setting aside the margin issue for a moment, at the very least variable base rate customers can have a reasonable expectation that their loans should be linked to the ECB base rate.... but this hasn’t been the case since mid 2008.
As the link to the ECB base rate has now been established the margin contained within the named interest rate e.g.5.25% can be easily calculated and it was typically +1.25% which (surprise surprise) was the margin on their tracker rates for LTV loans of 95-100% (see attached). If this rate had not been included in the loan offer EBS could argue that they can apply whatever margin above ECB they want as AIB have done with the prevailing rate cohort. However they can’t even do this as the customer now has reasonable grounds to argue that the rate that they should have reverted to after the fixed rate ended (variable base rate) was a rate that was dependent on or linked to the ECB base rate plus the calculated margin.
No doubt that EBS have the very best legal minds on board who will try to explain themselves out of this particular contract wording issue but hopefully the CBI see through it.
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haveaniceday
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Any Thoughts on the plans for the central bank to make bankers responsible for their actions - as in if I call up the EBS helpline and I am told by someone that the rsason I don't have a tracker mortgage today is down to my broker ... i.e. providing me with mis-information - are they now individually responsible fr this behaviour?
I was speaking with a freind who did get her tracker back after much fighting - she did it herself - she said she went through all her documentation and made a list of all the names of people who had a hand in giving her the mortgage she requested and the people who had a hand in telling her she was no longer entitle to this tracker mortgage - i.e. that she misunderstood what type of mortgage she had sign up for...
Now more than ever it might be worth writing letters to the individuals who have signed our documents - now they will risk being held personally responsible for any mis-information / dis-information they decide to give us?
I was speaking with a freind who did get her tracker back after much fighting - she did it herself - she said she went through all her documentation and made a list of all the names of people who had a hand in giving her the mortgage she requested and the people who had a hand in telling her she was no longer entitle to this tracker mortgage - i.e. that she misunderstood what type of mortgage she had sign up for...
Now more than ever it might be worth writing letters to the individuals who have signed our documents - now they will risk being held personally responsible for any mis-information / dis-information they decide to give us?
Got a reply to an email i sent to Michael McGrath and he thinks the CB will back the banks regarding the remaining cohorts. He advises people to exhaust the internal complaints mechanism first, eg the FSO before any further, sounds pretty ominous doesnt it but predictable considering the silence since the EBS 500 were conceded.
haveaniceday
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Isn't that so Convenient?
So in actual fact the CB has ONLY back bank customers where the banks actions where so blatant they were absolutely indefensible.
where there is ANY wiggle room the CB backs the banks
Our variable base rate situation is pretty shocking once you look at all the facts but some of the other Cohorts I have read about are pretty disgusting too.
Should we be surprised ? I am disgusted - the CB are nearly 10 years to late in fixing this tracker mortgage fraud by the banks to have any credibility anyway but to not pursue the banks to sort out other cohorts is disgraceful - not even mentioning the overcharging on variable rates over the last 10 years
What a joke the CB is.
So in actual fact the CB has ONLY back bank customers where the banks actions where so blatant they were absolutely indefensible.
where there is ANY wiggle room the CB backs the banks
Our variable base rate situation is pretty shocking once you look at all the facts but some of the other Cohorts I have read about are pretty disgusting too.
Should we be surprised ? I am disgusted - the CB are nearly 10 years to late in fixing this tracker mortgage fraud by the banks to have any credibility anyway but to not pursue the banks to sort out other cohorts is disgraceful - not even mentioning the overcharging on variable rates over the last 10 years
What a joke the CB is.
Agree totally, unfortunately if this indeed the case, the FSO, Padraig Kissane and possibly the courts are going to have a busy time due to this "hope this goes away attitude" by the banks and CB, absolutely disgraceful if this is the case. Appears like its coming to what any of us could have predicted, eg, taking it into our own hands due to yet another abdication of their consumer protection role, same as the issues re excessive variable rates.
Tony Mac-Disappointing to hear that McGrath feels this is how things will play out for the rest of the cohorts. Although I have yet to receive any information from PK or EBS to suggest my case is closed. In fact in my last conversation with EBS at the beginning of July I got the impression that there was a stand off between CBI & EBS regarding this cohort. This was also reflected in Bernard O’Byrnes last statement at the Oireachtas commiteee where he talked about CBI being arbiter to when review is over. Perhaps things have changed in recent weeks?
Just had a quick scan through the different threads. Are the PTSB & EBS variable base cohorts the only remaining cohorts still in CBI review? I see that the PTSB group are also receiving holding letters and like us are wondering what the reason is for the hold up. Perhaps there are other cohorts too? Have the CBI given a final answer to every other group and deemed them either impacted or not? If the CBI are taking the banks side on certain cohorts I’d like to think the banks would be letting customers know pretty quickly that this was the case.
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haveaniceday
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So this is in the independent.ie today
Yesterday, Mr Byrne said 96pc of customers affected by the tracker mortgage issue have received payments from the bank, and that over the next six weeks all impacted customers would have received payments.
Funny that - seeing as I have not even had one response from them yet on the issues I raised? and as I understand most people here have been told by EBS that they may not hear back for 'months' on queries raised?
So is MR Bernard Byrne now guilty of spreading 'fake news'
Amazing they can make payouts to shareholders under these current circumstances -
Where are the fines the CB has imposed upon this institution for the fraud they have conducted over the past 10 years on their customers- why do they or EBS still have a license to operate.
THIS IS INSANE
Yesterday, Mr Byrne said 96pc of customers affected by the tracker mortgage issue have received payments from the bank, and that over the next six weeks all impacted customers would have received payments.
Funny that - seeing as I have not even had one response from them yet on the issues I raised? and as I understand most people here have been told by EBS that they may not hear back for 'months' on queries raised?
So is MR Bernard Byrne now guilty of spreading 'fake news'
Amazing they can make payouts to shareholders under these current circumstances -
Where are the fines the CB has imposed upon this institution for the fraud they have conducted over the past 10 years on their customers- why do they or EBS still have a license to operate.
THIS IS INSANE
I see a lot of people here from ebs have not received final response letters. I'm a variable base cohort from haven and received a final response letter saying not impacted. I submitted a detailed list of proofs evidence etc to the fso and will just have to wait and see. The FSO wrote back saying my complaint is on hold until end of cb review. Haven replied to the FSO saying o has not been deemed impacted to date however if this changed during course of review I would be notified. Seems it's all down to how strong the cb deal with this specific issue
I’ve been in contact with the EBS & Central Bank; I don’t get the impression the review is anywhere near completed. Agreement from EBS that the length of time it is taking to complete review of the variable base cohort is telling in itself and to expect this to run until year end. EBS continuing to place responsibility for delay at door of CBI. CBI on the other hand stated that EBS should be at a point now where the examination is completed. Make of that what you will!
haveaniceday
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Hey there b26354 - How are you in touch / making a complaint to/ with the central bank - via email? also have you made any complaints to the data regulator?
Yes-e-mail.
I was pleasantly surprised by how interested they were in information I might have for them so I would strongly recommend that everyone sends them information that will strengthen our case. They reiterated that they can’t give me feedback on the info I send but they appreciate any information you have and send it on to the supervisory teams who are working on the review.
Re:the data regulator. Not yet but i’m thinking about it. I will send in another SARS request for e-mails between my broker & a number of named EBS staff members. I did a SARS request a few years ago and there is still documentation missing.