Water Utility collecting PPS Numbers

A recently received Irish Water application form requests my children's PPS numbers.

When you read Section G Data Protection, you realise there is no control over how much PPS data you are actually giving Irish Water and/or their agents (present and future) permission to obtain. Not only that but it appears that all persons you give PPS numbers for are not being given the opportunity of opting out of marketing. From the wording it appears the bill payer can opt out of certain marketing but that doesn't seem to extend to the other persons information you have given.

1. I'd like to understand how much information I am effectively permitting Irish Water to collect from my PPS number and those of my Children. Does anyone know?

2. I wonder if the other persons you are being asked to supply PPS numbers for also should be given the individual opportunity of opting out from marketing?

The bill payer is responsible for paying the charge. It seems strange that that person is asked to give other persons PPS numbers and by so doing also giving authority for Irish Water / agents to collect unspecified information about them and to use that information in unspecified ways.

My reading of the application guide is if you don't give your Children's PPS numbers then you won't receive the additional water allowance and if you don't return the form then you will be charged the default assessed charge - although it appears you retain a certain control over your personal information.
 
If you don't return the form you don't even get the household allowance, they need 1 PPSN for that. You will just get charged the per 1000 litre rate.
 
"The free household water allowance is 30,000 litres a year and is worth up to €146.40 a year per household. The childrens water allowance of 21,000 litres is worth up to €102 per child per year." - *****************

Not giving your PPSN will cost you - people need to be aware of this.
 

Time said:
That is in Ireland.
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The island of Ireland, maybe, but not the Republic of Ireland based on those figures..?
 


Irish Water reduces free allowance for children

Allocation of 38,000 litres announcedby Government cut to 21,000 litres

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-water-reduces-free-allowance-for-children-1.1884285


I am sure the Joe Duffy show will be busy tomorrow once people cop on to the fact that our personal data may be used for commecial reasons.
 

Unless you are on an unmetered plan, in which case supplying additional PPN numbers costs you because your bill is based on the number of people in the household.
 
Any chance somebody could scan the form. I'm wondering why I as owner has to register when it should actually be in my tenant's names, same as electricity etc.

I also don't understand all this debate about allowances, it's making it very complicated.
 
How do you think they will check??

Child Benefit is linked to the Mother and only to the Father in 2%-3% of the cases. What do you bet the vast majority of application forms have been sent out to the 'male' in the family to complete. How will they link the child's PPS number to the bill payer to give the children's water services allowance??
 
Just by registering for this website, you have given away a lot of personal information to a 3rd party. never mind all the details you give away on amazon, facebook etc. Then those on LinkedIn have their entire cv's up on public display. For those who have your own business, your home address and date of birth can be found in 2 seconds. If you have a limited company, even more information can be found in those 2 seconds. You give away personal information online all the time and it is constantly being sold to companies who want to sell you stuff.


Steven
www.bluewaterfp.ie
 

Was listening to Joe Duffy today, and the reason they're looking for the landlords pps number is so if the tenant doesn't register then the landlord will be charged. It will then be upto the landlord to get reimbursed from the tenant. Unbelievable but true.
 
It is the access to data over and above what is required to manage a bill for water that ruffles my feathers.

Section G data protection on their application form also refers you to their full data protection notice which appears on their web site. I can't see anything in this that clearly states the eight rules of data protection which govern the processing of personal data set out.

The Eight rules are:

Obtain and process the information fairly;
Keep it only for one or more specified, explicit and lawful purposes;
Process it only in ways compatible with the purposes for which it was given to you as a utility;
Keep it safe and secure;
Ensure that is adequate, relevant and not excessive;
Retain it no longer than is necessary for the specified purpose or purposes;
Give a copy of his/her personal data, on request.

Their current data protection statement is a shambles and without clarification and revision I can't see how it is possible for the vast majority of people to return their completed forms by the deadline.
 
If you are only a waste water only customer do you need to apply for allowances?
 

I don't know why. If they think someone will rob their identity, there have probably given more than enough information to less secure organisation to have their identity cloned.

Another way of looking at it is that society has become so dishonest as a whole. We cannot be trusted not to abuse the system by declaring the actual number of people living in each house.

Anyway, lots of ammunition for Joe Duffy. I must download a few podcasts to hear the hysteria.
 
If they think someone will rob their identity, there have probably given more than enough information to less secure organisation to have their identity cloned.
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There are less than 50 authorised bodies to use PPS numbers under Social Welfare Law and those bodies have clearly stated what information they obtain and what they use it for. Irish Water have not.
 

Based on their incompetence so far, 6K letters sent incorrectly, many landlords not receiving any letter despite being in multiple 'systems', those landlords that have received letters have been linked to incorrect premises (according to my phone call with Irish water they are spending most of their time rectifying the system they have) I wouldn't hold out much hope for them cross checking anything.
 

Don't believe everything you hear on Joe Duffy, and don't ever believe that Irish state bodies are telling the truth.

It seems to me, if I give them my PPS number and register as landlord, then I could potentially be liable.

However if I don't register or give them my PPS voluntarily they cannot bill me. But they are threatening us right now hoping we stupidly will register.

So far my conclusion as non resident landlord is that I simple notifiy them that I am a non occupier of any property and they are not to charge me anything. I have no intention of pursuing my tenants for a quango like Irish water.

I fully however support water charges. They have enough time and money to waste, let them go out and chase the tenants. 150 million or so on consultants and start up costs.
 
Sumatra said:
There are less than 50 authorised bodies to use PPS numbers under Social Welfare Law and those bodies have clearly stated what information they obtain and what they use it for. Irish Water have not.
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I've no idea who those 50 authorised bodies are. But every landlord in the country is legally obliged to collect the PPS number of their tenants for registration with the PRTB.

Now does that mean we are authorised or not? No idea.
 
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