Water Utility collecting PPS Numbers

michaelm

Frequent Poster
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1,652
Er, yes, michaelm, and I don't think it is "really cheap". As a pair of pensioners on low income (no big Irish pension) with 2 students over 18 in the house, based on the water we use at present we would be paying over €600 a year.
I suppose you're right. Although less than €2 per day for all water needs of four adults doesn't seem excessive to me . . that said it think that they should have fixed the leaking mains pipes rather than digging up half the country and creating this whole usage-less-allowance bill nonsense.
 

Bronte

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13,680
The PTRB are allowed to keep PPS numbers -but the forms the tenants fill in are surely for the PTRB and not for landlords to retain the data. I would have thought that retaining PPS details is breaking the data protection regulations ?
I don't see Landlords mentioned on this list http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Personal-Public-Service-Number-Register-of-Users.aspx
As it happens I'm just finishing off my landlord tax returns so I have my PRTB file with me. Going back to the 2005 form:

Requirements

1. PPSN no of tenant, tenant to sign and date form, my ppsn no, my signature and date, Cheque.

2. Rule F on PPSN,

how to get a PPSN, says the use of it is governed by law, not to be stored, or used for any other purpose other than registration.

Now as I was a) dealing with the totally incopetent PTRB, and boy were they incompetent at the time, b) a matter that has serious revenue implications for me if I get it wrong, I photocopied the form before posting it. I do this in general with any government body. All those forms are in my PRTB file.

If I hadn't done that, I wouldn't have been later able to send the PRTB a copy of that form so they could issue me with the confirmation number as they were not very efficient at the beginning on doing this.

The confirmation letter you receive from the PRTB does not mention the PPSN no of me or the tenants, it pretty much hasn't anything on it really, not in comparision to what I filled out in the form.

At some stage the PRTB stopped requiring the tenants signature and eventually not mine either if I'm not mistaken

Electronic submission

This format means when you submit, you can no longer see all you've filled out, they delete teh PPSN no. But I just write it on the paper file, I'd in any case have it on a piece of paper before I sit down at the computer to register. In addition I write on that document the Out date of the tenant.
 

Time

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2,741
My water bill is €70 with an included household allowance of 200,000 litres. Between today and last April when my meter was last read, I have only used 15,000 litres. I am not stingy on the water either.

I think people are blowing this out of all proportion.
 

sahd

Frequent Poster
Messages
768
working this out logically & so if I have this correct...

30,000 + 42,000 litres for our 2 kids. This is not annual, just the free allowance given.

our toilets are 9 litre flushes, times the number of flushes per day.Throw in washing fruit & veg, washing hands & showers, washing machine etc the allowance seems low.
Do you expect the free allowance to cover all your usage?, Irish Water was set up to get money for water - not to give it away for free.
 

Drakon

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Messages
393
Why are Irish people so private about the PPSNs? It the US the SSN is not such a guarded secret. It's like your name; though it's unique.
 

Time

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2,741
The DSP specifies who may use a PPSN. This has been eroded over the years by other non state bodies asking for it, mostly banks etc. The DSP and DPC are clear on what it may be used for.

The situation in the US is the same. People do not give it freely and although banks ask for it there is no legal reason for this and service cannot refused if the person does not give it. It is a government identifier only.
 

Roisinb

Frequent Poster
Messages
19
If I do NOT wish to claim Water Allowances...why does a water utility need my PPS numbers?

When Irish Water is privatised, will the new owners then get my PPS number?
Can Irish Water take money with the Bank details they require?
 

moneybox

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Messages
715
My water bill is €70 with an included household allowance of 200,000 litres. Between today and last April when my meter was last read, I have only used 15,000 litres. I am not stingy on the water either.

.
I gather you dont live in Ireland, you have a very generous water allowance.
 

sahd

Frequent Poster
Messages
768
They are only asking for a direct debit mandate if that is how you want to pay the bills. Nothing sinister.
 

Sumatra

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Messages
581
A recently received Irish Water application form requests my children's PPS numbers.

When you read Section G Data Protection, you realise there is no control over how much PPS data you are actually giving Irish Water and/or their agents (present and future) permission to obtain. Not only that but it appears that all persons you give PPS numbers for are not being given the opportunity of opting out of marketing. From the wording it appears the bill payer can opt out of certain marketing but that doesn't seem to extend to the other persons information you have given.

1. I'd like to understand how much information I am effectively permitting Irish Water to collect from my PPS number and those of my Children. Does anyone know?

2. I wonder if the other persons you are being asked to supply PPS numbers for also should be given the individual opportunity of opting out from marketing?

The bill payer is responsible for paying the charge. It seems strange that that person is asked to give other persons PPS numbers and by so doing also giving authority for Irish Water / agents to collect unspecified information about them and to use that information in unspecified ways.

My reading of the application guide is if you don't give your Children's PPS numbers then you won't receive the additional water allowance and if you don't return the form then you will be charged the default assessed charge - although it appears you retain a certain control over your personal information.
 

Time

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2,741
If you don't return the form you don't even get the household allowance, they need 1 PPSN for that. You will just get charged the per 1000 litre rate.
 

theresa1

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Messages
1,088
"The free household water allowance is 30,000 litres a year and is worth up to €146.40 a year per household. The childrens water allowance of 21,000 litres is worth up to €102 per child per year." - moneyguideireland

Not giving your PPSN will cost you - people need to be aware of this.
 

mandelbrot

Former user
Messages
2,330
My water bill is €70 with an included household allowance of 200,000 litres. Between today and last April when my meter was last read, I have only used 15,000 litres. I am not stingy on the water either.

I think people are blowing this out of all proportion.
That is in Ireland.
The island of Ireland, maybe, but not the Republic of Ireland based on those figures..?
 

moneybox

Frequent Poster
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715
"The free household water allowance is 30,000 litres a year and is worth up to €146.40 a year per household. The childrens water allowance of 21,000 litres is worth up to €102 per child per year." - moneyguideireland

Not giving your PPSN will cost you - people need to be aware of this.

Irish Water reduces free allowance for children

Allocation of 38,000 litres announcedby Government cut to 21,000 litres

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-water-reduces-free-allowance-for-children-1.1884285


I am sure the Joe Duffy show will be busy tomorrow once people cop on to the fact that our personal data may be used for commecial reasons.
 
Messages
4,790
"The free household water allowance is 30,000 litres a year and is worth up to €146.40 a year per household. The childrens water allowance of 21,000 litres is worth up to €102 per child per year." - moneyguideireland

Not giving your PPSN will cost you - people need to be aware of this.
Unless you are on an unmetered plan, in which case supplying additional PPN numbers costs you because your bill is based on the number of people in the household.
 
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