Warning to landlords considering HAP tenants

7 of 9

Registered User
Messages
10
I recently had my rented house assessed by Fingal County Council. The cooker has a charcoal hood on an internal wall. I have been told its not up to standard and must be vented to an outside wall.
 

cremeegg

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,214
I recently had my rented house assessed by Fingal County Council. The cooker has a charcoal hood on an internal wall. I have been told its not up to standard and must be vented to an outside wall.
Ask them to provide the legal basis for this request.

I am not saying that they will not be able to provide it, but no harm to put them to the trouble.
 

josh8267

Registered User
Messages
95
Ask them to provide the legal basis for this request.

I am not saying that they will not be able to provide it, but no harm to put them to the trouble.
Post 100 says it need to be vented to the outside ,still it would be good to see what they come up with,
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
11,044
Ask them to provide the legal basis for this request.

I am not saying that they will not be able to provide it, but no harm to put them to the trouble.
As above, it's explicitly called out in the legislation:

(b) Suitable facilities for the effective and safe removal of fumes to the external air by means of a cooker hood or extractor fan,
 

RobFer

Frequent Poster
Messages
102
That is incorrect, external ventilation of cooking fumes is mandatory under the legislation.



What? How do these houses comply with TGD F?
Are you referring to houses with natural ventilation? I'd urge all home owners to avoid externally vented extraction hoods but I admit I don't know the requirements for naturally vented houses. For houses with mechanical ventilation like my 2017 build, you don't find external extraction hoods too commonly. I have seen many such houses without such extraction hoods. I just have a charcoal/carbon filter hood. Such hoods are wasteful. You can hook such a hood to MHRV and then get ventilation and also recycle the heat, which is ideal but it's not straightforward because the airborn greece will damage the MHRV.
 
Last edited:

Leo

Moderator
Messages
11,044
Are you referring to houses with natural ventilation?
I'm referring to the building regulations.

I'd urge all home owners to avoid externally vented extraction hoods but I admit I don't know the requirements for naturally vented houses.
The legal situation is quite clear, external ventilation of cooker hoods is required.
 

RobFer

Frequent Poster
Messages
102
I'm referring to the building regulations.



The legal situation is quite clear, external ventilation of cooker hoods is required.
ok but are you sure it's not different for some hosues? houses that are naturally vented have different requirements. A naturally vented house requires hole in the wall type vents in every habitated room. The regulations don't require this is in a mechanically vented house. As they are instead vented to a MHRV or similar unit.

Recirculation hoods are widely sold in Ireland and I quick Google found a 2016 Irish Times article prompting them. Surprised if they are essentially not permitted.
 

Westgolf

Frequent Poster
Messages
290
Have been doing up my rental following last tenants moving on, vacant since mid December last. Zurich only covering on fire basis due to vacant status. Rang them yesterday to inform them that new tenants moving in next week, mentioned HAP status and was told Zurich do not cover rental property where the tenants are on this scheme ? Is this widespread ?
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
11,044
ok but are you sure it's not different for some hosues?
Yes, read the legislation I linked above.

The regulations don't require this is in a mechanically vented house. As they are instead vented to a MHRV or similar unit.
The building regulations provide the specifics of the level of ventilation required for habitable rooms, these specifics are achievable via MHRV or open vents in each of these rooms. Each dwelling must be in compliance with the prevailing regs at time of completion to be signed-off. So in your own home a recirculating hood might be perfectly fine, some MHRV system have the option to include hood extraction, but that can be expensive and problematic. due to the grease content The legislation for rented properties goes further than the building regs, and sets minimum standards for such properties regardless of when they were built.

Recirculation hoods are widely sold in Ireland and I quick Google found a 2016 Irish Times article prompting them. Surprised if they are essentially not permitted.
I don't think anyone is disputing they are on sale, you are free to use them in your own home, the issue highlighted here is that recirculating hoods do not meet the minimum standards for rental accommodation.
 

RobFer

Frequent Poster
Messages
102
Yes, read the legislation I linked above.



The building regulations provide the specifics of the level of ventilation required for habitable rooms, these specifics are achievable via MHRV or open vents in each of these rooms. Each dwelling must be in compliance with the prevailing regs at time of completion to be signed-off. So in your own home a recirculating hood might be perfectly fine, some MHRV system have the option to include hood extraction, but that can be expensive and problematic. due to the grease content The legislation for rented properties goes further than the building regs, and sets minimum standards for such properties regardless of when they were built.



I don't think anyone is disputing they are on sale, you are free to use them in your own home, the issue highlighted here is that recirculating hoods do not meet the minimum standards for rental accommodation.
If that is true, it is insane. My house does meet regulations in regards its cooker. Externally vented hoods are moronic waste of energy and just create unpleasant draughts and its a retrograde regulation. No wonder declining numbers want to be landlords. I will check your claim with an expert.
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
11,044
If that is true, it is insane. My house does meet regulations in regards its cooker.
I'm not disagreeing, I've drilled 5" holes in mass concrete walls in houses you'd never manage an air-tightness test in just to meet the additional rental standards requirements.

I will check your claim with an expert.
You don't have to, just read the legislation above, it's there in black and white.
 

landlord

Frequent Poster
Messages
899
Changing my original theme when I started this post......
Despite all the negatives of having a HAP tenants, at least the silver lining may be that, in this “Corona” climate the rental income source is likely to prove more reliable than from those who may soon loose their jobs?
 

Bronte

Frequent Poster
Messages
13,807
Thank goodness all my tenant's bar one is HAP. I was going to sell one rental this year with a family in it as the rent is way below market and I was sick of government interference. Plus I was worried about the family of two adults and four children and where they would go. And I never got around to it. Well there's no way in hell I'll sell now as the market is going to be horrendous.

I couldn't believe my ears yesterday. The government think's landlords should charge no rent if the tenant loses their job. Just how on earth is a landlord supposed to pay the mortgage, the taxes and the other costs. Madness. Sheer madness. And what will this crazy idea result in. Tenant's who can afford it refusing to pay their rents.
 

Sunny

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,842
Thank goodness all my tenant's bar one is HAP. I was going to sell one rental this year with a family in it as the rent is way below market and I was sick of government interference. Plus I was worried about the family of two adults and four children and where they would go. And I never got around to it. Well there's no way in hell I'll sell now as the market is going to be horrendous.

I couldn't believe my ears yesterday. The government think's landlords should charge no rent if the tenant loses their job. Just how on earth is a landlord supposed to pay the mortgage, the taxes and the other costs. Madness. Sheer madness. And what will this crazy idea result in. Tenant's who can afford it refusing to pay their rents.
Well then you get a holiday on mortgage and bills and all other costs until the rent is paid again as the banks and utility companies have said. People get behind on their mortgage. People get behind on their rent. We have hundreds of thousands of people who have lost jobs or on short time work in the past couple of weeks. Maybe, now is not the time to be worrying about mortgages and bills (Noone is going to have their house taken off them or lose their utilities over this.) This crisis is so far beyond financial. Look at the pictures and videos coming out of Italy. This is a battle to save lives. Of course there will be people who abuse every situation. Not much we can do about that.
 

Leo

Moderator
Messages
11,044
Well then you get a holiday on mortgage and bills and all other costs until the rent is paid again as the banks and utility companies have said.
A holiday doesn't mean any of those costs go away, they and interest will continue to mount.
 

Sunny

Frequent Poster
Messages
3,842
A holiday doesn't mean any of those costs go away, they and interest will continue to mount.
yeah and they will for the people renting as well. I am not saying it is just written off. We will just have to deal with it.....
 

Sarenco

Frequent Poster
Messages
6,088
Thank goodness all my tenant's bar one is HAP. I was going to sell one rental this year with a family in it as the rent is way below market an I was sick of government interference.
Surely you are profiting from government interference if all your tenant bar one are HAP?
 
Top