Warning to landlords considering HAP tenants

Feemar5

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According to our local council the RAS scheme terms of contract will be negotiated between the Council and the Landlord and generally will be of sufficient duration in order to meet the long term housing needs of the tenant. The rent paid by the local authority will be the full, agreed rent for the property. The Landlord will not have to collect rent for the duration of the agreement. The Council will collect the tenant's rent contribution and will pay the full rent to the Landlord. Landlord will have a bankable asset that a guaranteed RAS rent payment represents and guaranteed prompt payment by a State agency. The payment will be made promptly on a monthly basis, in advance of the due date.

The key 'landlord and tenant' relationship will remain between the property owner and the former rent supplement recipient. The Council will act as broker or agent on behalf of the tenant.
Landlords retain responsibility for insurances, routine maintenance and repair, and dealing with anti-social behaviour.
 

Dermot

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For almost 2 years it is the HAP scheme that has taken the place of RAS. The Landlord gets no deposit from HAP. If the tenant does not pay their contribution to HAP the landlord does not get paid. If landlord contacts HAP you will get Data Protection as to why they cannot discuss why they are not paying you. See the rents that HAP are offering on the following link http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html
Some of the rents are 50/60/70% below the market rent in the some of the areas.
Another reason why its not working is that say you have private tenants who are willing to take the acommodation why one a landlord hold off while the beureaucracy is taking place (getting proof that you own the house for instance ). Getting approval that the tenant is suitable and the rent is agreeable to HAP. Being honest would prefer to spend that month in most cases trying to source a good private tenant. I hate beaureaucracy. Im not being prejudiced.
 

landlord

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If a HAP tenant stops making their agreed contribution to the relevant council then HAP will immediately stop paying the landlord. This is a fact. You are then at the mercy of the
wonderful RTB

For this reason I'M OUT
Robert.... was thinking......

HAP at the start from my experience pay an agreed rent, hopefully all of the initially requested rent. The following year if you raise the rent by 4% they will either pay it or say they are unable as they have reached the maximum allowed for that type of property. In this case my experience has been the tenant themselves have paid the excess to me directly by standing order. In the case of non-payment of this excess rent, HAP would be none the wiser and would continue paying me the original agreed rent? Please let me know if I am missing anything
 

Dermot

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Hi Landlord. I am not disputing your experience but you are probably in an RPZ or in an area where the Hap allowance is relatively close to market rent but as you can see from the previous link which I have posted and do again ( http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html ) not all areas have rent maximums near where the market is. The rules are in a booklet issued by Hap also see the following link ( http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/housing_assistance_payment.html ) which empowers officialdom to do what you quoted "robert" as saying so you can see where I am coming from. You can see where you could end up trying to convince officialdom that they are not in touch and they telling that there hands are tied etc. Just pointing out practical problems of why its not working countrywide
 

landlord

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Hi Landlord ,

Did you confirm my statement with HAP ?
Kind of. Reply from HAP.....

“Hi ......

A landlord’s payment would never be immediately stopped. The tenant would receive reminder letters and calls from our debt management department and also a landlord would receive a letter from us advising them that we have not received payment from a tenant.
This would be over the course of several weeks to allow the tenant to make payment.”

As long as my tenants pay the excess directly to me, then I believe I am safe.
I will read Dermots post in more detail later.
 

landlord

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Dermot. Both your links were the same.

From the HAP citizens information that Dermot posted earlier....

Paying your landlord
The local authority will make the HAP payment to your landlord on your behalf, subject to certain conditions:

  • You must pay your weekly HAP rent contribution to the local authority – if not, the local authority will stop paying your landlord
I think this is outrageous! Why in the world should the landlord be penalised by HAP because the tenant decides for whatever reason to cease his contributions.
 

Bronte

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Paying your landlord
You must pay your weekly HAP rent contribution to the local authority – if not, the local authority will stop paying your landlord
I think this is outrageous! Why in the world should the landlord be penalised by HAP because the tenant decides for whatever reason to cease his contributions.
There is nothing outrageous here, if your tenant stops paying his portion of the rent to the city council then HAP stops paying. It's the very same as if a normal tenant stopped paying. No difference.
 

Dermot

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I agree with Leo at 70 above.
I have a difficulty with Bronte's comment though where if the Tenant is dealing with the Landlord it is a two way conversation but when it becomes a three way conversation it can and usually does become more complicated. He said/you said/she said and all that and the landlord maybe the only really interested in sorting it out.
You will see that there are large areas of the country where the rent quoted by HAP represents only 60% of the market rent. I am aware of a few landlords who feel "stuck" with Hap and are waiting to get out of it who are resorting to paying Hap themselves in order to get the Hap payment.
How does a tenant on social payments pay their contribution to Hap and the Landlord. Some LA's are looking for a deduction on market rent of 8% because they are interpreting it as guaranteed rent which it is not.
 

landlord

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There is nothing outrageous here, if your tenant stops paying his portion of the rent to the city council then HAP stops paying. It's the very same as if a normal tenant stopped paying. No difference.
Example....
If rent is €1500 paid by HAP to landlord and tenant contributes €100 to HAP.
If tenant suddenly stops paying their €100, then it seems ridiculous to me that HAP would just cease ALL payments to the landlord. If HAP paid €1,400 instead of €1,500 to landlord that would seem fair.
 

RETIRED2017

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that would seem fair.

Ireland, fair, landlord, left, what am I missing?
If landlords think it is fair tenants who don't pay should be left in there accommodating and taxpayers bail out both I am beginning to understand why some tenants don't pay landlords rent,

By the way I am a landlord,
 
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Gordon Gekko

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There is nothing outrageous here, if your tenant stops paying his portion of the rent to the city council then HAP stops paying. It's the very same as if a normal tenant stopped paying. No difference.
Except the State is, on the one hand, compelling landlords to take in deadbeats via HAP, and then, on the other, it wants to transfer all risk to the landlord. Heads I win and Tails you lose.
 

Bronte

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Except the State is, on the one hand, compelling landlords to take in deadbeats via HAP, and then, on the other, it wants to transfer all risk to the landlord. Heads I win and Tails you lose.
Not sure why you are referring to peole as deadbeats.

There is the same risk of non payment with a HAP or normal tenant. Only difference is the rent is mostly paid direcly by the council.
 

RETIRED2017

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Not sure why you are referring to peole as deadbeats.

There is the same risk of non payment with a HAP or normal tenant. Only difference is the rent is mostly paid direcly by the council.
Could be higher risk with a so called normal tenant and take longer to resolve,
 

Gordon Gekko

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Not sure why you are referring to peole as deadbeats.

There is the same risk of non payment with a HAP or normal tenant. Only difference is the rent is mostly paid direcly by the council.
That just can’t be true.

Take two populations:

- People who can afford to pay their way

- People who rely on the State

It is crazy to suggest that the latter don’t cause more trouble, whether that’s not paying for things or committing crime etc.
 
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