New Houses in Diswellstown Castleknock

Discussion in 'Location, Location, Location' started by taytoman, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. lukeskywalker

    lukeskywalker Registered User

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    CMX thank you for this update. Do you know where the proposed walkway and cycleway is into Diswellstown Manor? Describes it as adjacent to house number 126 (in hamilton park presumably). Can the residents of Diswellstown Manor as a private managed estate oppose this if they want?
     
  2. cmx_70

    cmx_70 Registered User

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    A view of the map in the planning doc should reveal the precise location of the link, I would guess. There is an existing pedestrian gate in the boundary wall of DM, I assume that will be the route of access.

    The DM residents should demand that the management company police this gateway, there is obviously a concern that the teenager loitering activity already mentioned on this thread as a problem in HP will spill over into DM. Also DM has very beautiful communal recreational areas that will be a very attractive destination for those from the more built up congested HP.

    On the flip side pedestrian access to the shops around the Carpenter for the DM residents will be desirable for most. I would be interested to poll the DM residents on this, access versus security? Perhaps something to be discussed at the AGM or before it if folks have the motivation to get of the forums and meet in person to represent their DM community in a cohesive way.
     
  3. Lor2016

    Lor2016 Registered User

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    That's bad news. The current apartments are a real eyesore IMO so another block will just add to that.
     
  4. Bobsworth

    Bobsworth Frequent Poster

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    That is bad news for everybody!

    I know some people in HP but more importantly also in DM who will be pretty annoyed at this. A petition went in I heard after a meeting but I don't think it got a lot of signatures from HP residents, maybe onlyb20%? Is that true? I think the overshadowing/overlooking will be the biggest issue. It's so close to some of the houses in DM over the wall and school it probably shouldn't have been allowed - even though the units are prob desperately needed for people who want a home. The parks in HP are being built at the moment and are at the very back, seem bigger than first thought! Can be seen now if you drive in and to the back. Would the fact DM is a NAMA estate and HP NAMA funded they got little say in what "had" to be built?

    Much of HP seems finished and there isn't any congestion of note. It seems most people use train/bus to commute as bus is 2-3 min walk and train8-10. Also the teenagers mentioned appear to be gone. Mind you they are all over the entire area. It's a young part of the city I guess.... they aren't from either estate so seem transient... not s bad by a distance as the other end of the area where Annfield etc... is. Can't see a road going in, all are pretty adamant there can't be road access to Porterstown as could become a rat run through very residential area. No estate on the road provides car access. Also while HP has "normal" style roads that are found in most estates DM has quite narrow roads and some have no footpaths, therefore don't see right now where one could go? Also the access to DM is nothing short of dangerous, I've heard there have been a number of accidents there already from a friend who lives in there, can't see it becoming a junction as there would be a crash there every morning. They prob need some ramps either side of the entrance. Again probably should not have been allowed. Down by the hotel would have been a better entrance for safety imo. I don't think either need to worry about it. None of the managed estates in the area have through roads but all have been forced to provide pedestrian access, Annfield, Fernleigh and Woodbrook for example. Unless the estate is "gated" it's difficult to not provide access. It's a problem in all of them as any damage done etc... has to be repaired by the management company, which is of course funded by the residents only. The less there are the higher the bills. Management fees in some have near doubled in last decade! Not just because of damage but they only ever go up. The whole area around the GAA etc will eventually be developed so again not ideal for anybody as the estates become a walkway to and from public transport.

    Agree with previous poster. The design is ugly!! Can be seen from M50. hopefully the new one is a bit different and doesn't look directly into people's homes in DM. I think there are a row of 4 beds just built in HP that could also be affected but not too many! From the design there seem to be a few that will be affected and for the prices paid that isn't on. It's not very fair as the developers/planners/agents obviously did a job on buyers by changing it.

    The crèche will be a godsend for the area as there aren't enough imo! Still disappointing result all round...
     
  5. Alesto

    Alesto Registered User

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  6. Bobsworth

    Bobsworth Frequent Poster

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    Just for clarity:

    DM will have no option on the access as it will be decided by the Coco. HP own the land (taken in charge on transfer) including all around the school. This was one reason sales took long to complete in DM as they had overlooked this for waste water removal. HP refused access for that for quite a while. It's only 24 inches. I'm sure Park got their pound of flesh as a result!

    If there is a right of access then it's just open. It cannot be one sided. If there is no gate to the front then why a gate to rear? The Coco would never allow that. Plus it's expensive, the management fees (which will double in next 5 years anyway as usual) won't cover security etc...managed estates are far more desirable for antisocial behaviour as they are walled and easier to hide in so agree there but the residents don't get a choice on public access if there is a right of passage (see Woodbrook, annfield etc...no diff). I don't know of any pedestrian gate controlled access in the entire area? DM residents only get to decide what happens "inside" their walls, nothing else.

    Lastly the teenagers you mention could be from DM for all the people in HP know. Maybe just staying out of parents sight by jumping the wall?? They aren't from HP, don't think there is a teenager in the place. Was made fairly clear through posts that they wandered in from elsewhere? Was actually mentioned a number of times. I think the question posed was as regards where they came from. Bit odd to say they come from HP, which isn't congested at all? Odd comment really.

    Hopefully the access can be sorted as HP have no wish to provide it at all. There is no gain and HP is the major, DM the minor. DM should not get access through HP imo and HP should oppose this as one of the USPs was that its far more accessible to amenities and part of the community. Certainly not an elec gate banging and breaking all the time etc... the HP builders seem smart enough and apart from the wall the apartments will be closer to DM than HP from viewing plans, they are across the road from bulk of HP, just over boundary walls of houses in DM by a few feet. Neither is nice but they knew what they were at.

    I doubt one resident of HP would like extra through traffic by foot or car for an adjacent estate in which access to amenities was an afterthought???
     
  7. Bobsworth

    Bobsworth Frequent Poster

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    Worth also noting that the commercial element has been removed which is brilliant news. There is far more to the decision than was posted, it's a 4 pager and deals with following headings:

    1 overshadow of school
    2 overshadow of DM
    3 height
    4 traffic impact
    5 parking

    Key points;

    1 the block is only the same height as the school and 3 story houses in DM. No diff to a row of 5 beds.

    2 access will not be changed that is clear from full report. Refers to original approval for cars and foot traffic.

    3 no commercial units (except ground floor creche)

    4 only 2 houses in directly overlooked, both in DM and those overlooking will have obscured view with something(screens) on balcony? Seems reasonable

    5 no HP houses are overlooked

    6 some new HP houses will now back on to existing DM houses but won't directly overlook

    7 no terraces mentioned for HP which is great

    8 congestion checked and noted it is only an issue for drop and collection for school. Set down improvements noted. (Most people have long left for work or won't be back for hours - 8:30am and 2:30pm). Actually notes it's a short period and expected at any school. Think most would rather have a school in walking dist, particularly one of the best NS in Dublin.

    It actually seems fairly reasonable. Access won't change, very few houses affected. 26m from school boundary. Ample parking and less cars than needed for terraces. All underground below ground level. Looks self contained with own play area etc... the removal of commercial area is a huge win. Imagine being 10ft from a delivery entrance or vent for a deli cooking stuff! Also no taller than 3 story houses which are already usable from the park at the carpenter.

    All in all not as bad as first thought. Similar to Bracken Park really and that has worked well.
     
  8. ASG12345

    ASG12345 Registered User

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    Last edited: May 11, 2017
    Couple of points on the above
    - In relation to the apartments I think that it takes away from both estates having two blocks in the middle of the development. The one in the middle of HP is an eyesore and given that it sits to the south of some of the development and casts a shadow on the front of some houses I can't understand how it was granted PP. The crèche however is much needed in the area and the fact that it is to the north of DM and they look to have made an effort to use screens is something. I can understand that people who bought in that corner of DM would be annoyed if they weren't aware of the plans for HP, Hooke MacDonald were never gooing to volinteer the information.

    On access
    - As far as I am aware the only right of way on the DM site (to the east, north or west) was the entrance half way down the lane at the Beeches which gives access to the schools/shops/train to DM. My understanding is that this has to be left open 24/7.
    - The council has granted planning permission to HP phase 2 with a condition opening access between HP & DM at the school roundabout / new crèche which was a proposed access point not a right of way. Councils around Dublin have been trying to rectify mistakes of the past where walls / gates were put up between estates that kids (and limber adults) would climb to avoid a longer walk but risked injury. My question would be is this now effectively a right of way? Could DM management committee decide to block this entrance "inside" the DM walls?
    - The attraction of DM was that it was a more private, smaller development with the same access to schools/shops/train etc. through the Beeches. From that perspective blocking that gate would stop people using DM for school drop-offs / pick-ups and also restrict access to any would be anti-social groups coming from the Diswellstown Road /Carpenterstown Road direction while still having access to local amenities through the Beeches.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  9. AlbacoreA

    AlbacoreA Frequent Poster

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    The main issue with the walls and gates I didn't think was injury (though certainly its an issue) but was to make places more pedestrian friendly. However this often has to be balanced by anti-social considerations. A lot of alleyways, and walk through were blocked across Fingal due to the latter. Most of the people looking to open up such access are not usually the residents at the location, but throughput traffic.

    Is there any current map that shows the new estates in their finished form?
     
  10. Bobsworth

    Bobsworth Frequent Poster

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    Agree with both posts above.

    The pedestrian route is noted in all of the plans as "possible future". There are 4 pages of documents on the coco site and they are not easy to decipher. They continually mention 53 apartments but the plans show that's in 1 block only. Half the access is on private DM land and half on the currently private HPland. It's up to the council to decide how it's used and I doubt either will get a choice.

    I'm surprised by the "antisocial" comments. This is probably one of the safest, quietest areas in North/West Dublin with an exceptionally low crime rate. Probably better than even Malahide/Clontarf. Castleknock (incl Carpentrrstown, LL and now Diswellstown) is the only town land in Dublin without corporation housing (even ballsbridge, blackrock etc has some) The kids I meet of all ages are really well behaved. Once the areas to the south of DM are complete (all zoned already) I doubt it will be any different. It's not "gated" so anybody can walk in. Once the last unit transfers from the developer the insurers usually capitalise on this as the estate will need open/public liability insurance of its own. So if little Billy is climbing a tree and falls, breaking a leg, he can claim off the estates insurance. Irelands MUD act is terrible and it's generally unfair on residents imo. It's why you see "no ball games", "no skateboarding" signs in all of them....the residents have to take the liability that a member of the public strolls in and hurts themselves - it's unfair. Schools are very well protected by monitored systems, the apartments will be self contained MUD act land also so will most likely have cameras etc... too. I don't think the gate would be an issue. The beeches area would be darker and more quiet etc... but there is no antisocial behaviour in the area generally.

    The current ones in HP are really ugly but the colours were forced by the coco. They wouldn't allow red brick. They also wouldn't allow full red bricks to face the main road etc...All buying in HP were made aware of them and they could be seen by those purchasing houses to the north already so there were no surprises. Tge houses to the north had an 8% premium to the original 4 bed house 7 months ago when deposits were down and a larger % premium for 3 beds. I've heard mention that the standard 4 bed in Autumn could be asking 575k - before you put in floors etc.. so the agents don't seem to think it will deter. H&M didn't have the best sales reputation and I know a number of dissatisfied buyers that were left with a bad taste from dealing with them. Maybe they were a bit more coy than usual to get the units sold? They are estate agents so deserve the same trust as a used car salesman imo.

    The new one, that was originally 2 storey does not have any houses to the north to take light from, it will take morning light from the school and evening light from houses to the east of which there are currently about 8 built. Those 8 have south facing gardens so I doubt buyers will mind. The park is to the north so won't make a diff to existing houses by much in terms of light. The biggest positive is that the commercial units are gone so that does alleviate traffic of all kinds. Wasn't needed anyway!

    The national development plan wants mixed unit types in all developments going forward. So people can trade up/down without having to leave their community. It's correct and what happens in most developed countries. DM is a Nama estate so it's surprising no apartments have been released yet. It will be interesting to see what's built to the south (somerton lane area) as if "Diswellstown" is to become an area in Castleknock in its own right it will be forced to have quite a few apartment blocks. With the tall hotel, 3 storey NS and HP blocks I'd be surprised if the south side of Porterstown road didn't have estates with 3 or 4, even 5 story apartments. The road won't take the traffic but that won't stop NAMA building and getting their money back on the land. I'd be more worried about what goes there than what's in HP as with an average price in excess of half a million+ I doubt there will be many, if any undesirables in either estate. Remember at launch the 4bed (most were in phase 1and 2) in HP was 10k more than DM so most buyers at the time paid a premium to live there. They are both lovely estates, different but HP has the largest standard 3 or 4 beds in the whole area, 40ft gardens, large parks (in completion) a great NS on site with automatic enrolling and soon a crèche. DS is beautifully finished, same school access with some lovely bespoke houses and a "parkland" setting etc...the houses aren't as big but the grounds are undoubtably superior at the moment. Even the walls being stone are a lovely feature etc.... some posters seem to have a misconception that one is premium to the other? One has apartments, one has terraces and 3 storey houses, one is bigger with better infrastructure, one is smaller but feels more compact on the roads and the access reflects the current size etc... they are different but I think both are great estates and none of the issues referred to will change that, look at Bracken, it's nicer than both and a 5 bed started at 750k, facing a 3 storey apartment block. There are terraces too, it's far from the train, small gardens etc.... but it sold out its houses fairly well. Fairhaven had 3 beds starting at 490k and has 000s of apartments with 60% rentals on its doorstep. It's the way the city is going I guess... I think everybody who bought in both has got a lovely, high spec house that most people would love to have. There are always downsides, but I don't think they are as bad as some are making out. People are looking at paying 800k for houses (which are lovely as they are) 1km from Ongar and Blackwood (in Ongar) are asking 530k now, therefore anybody in DM or HP from early on have done really really well imo regardless!
     
  11. AlbacoreA

    AlbacoreA Frequent Poster

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    I only mention antisocial as a lot of the older estates (coolmine, Blanch etc) actually had long alleyways. These new estates don't have that. Also you won't have the footfall.

    There's lots of kids in the area. With 5 or six schools nearby that's hardly news.

    I would really hope they don't built anymore on Porterstown Rd, or Somerton . The Liffey Valley is meant to be a Special Amenity Area Order. A green zone. Though planners, the council and Councillors seem intent on making everywhere a concrete, jungle with grid lock everywhere.
     
  12. AlbacoreA

    AlbacoreA Frequent Poster

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    The congestion in the area isn't a problem at the estate. Its that now gridlocked to get out of the area in every direction, laurel lodge, castleknock college, coolmine,, dr troy bridge. Indeed it backs up so that anyone near these, has trouble getting out of their own road in the morning.

    ..yet they want to keep building...
     
  13. Bobsworth

    Bobsworth Frequent Poster

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    Agree with you. Main issue is all approaches pass M50 junctions N/S in particular. It's 9km from a city the size of many European capitals, not London or Paris but I think many cities this size have the same issue. Public transport is better than many areas equidistant from college green though, train is 25 min to centre like...

    Worst congestion I know locally is heading to Castleknock main st from Sandpits though as the traffic light intervals at Myos are short from this direction (give precedent to LL direction) and Chapelizod is a total bottleneck.

    Previous poster mentioned HP as "congested" which is what I was referring too. A misconception at best but an odd comment even on antisocial behaviour given prices in HP are above DM for 3/4 beds in most cases. Some buyers in DM for 4 beds in particular just didn't get the orientation they wanted in HP on day 1 as they were too far down the list. I know a number, very happy with their house in DM but would have preferred HP if 4 beds in phase 1 didn't all (95%) have north facing back gardens. E/W facing houses were 25-35k above DM as it's a bigger house. They saved 10k buying in DM though as the 4 bed 2 story was cheaper. New phases don't face north but some unfortunately couldn't wait so went for "next best option" in their own words.

    The area around sports grounds and hotel, particularly towards M50 will be developed and agee it's unfortunate but inevitable. Strawberry beds will be left but top of valley will be built on. It is a shame and the roads in Porterstown will have to be seriously upgraded imo!
     
  14. willowthewisp

    willowthewisp Registered User

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    Guys, let's not argue between estates.;)
     
  15. lukeskywalker

    lukeskywalker Registered User

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    Agree with willthe wisp. All I can say is that my personal opinion is that Diswellstown Manor looks very well indeed. They have done a great job on it and its not even finished yet.
     
  16. Dearbhla101

    Dearbhla101 New Member

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    Last edited: May 18, 2017
    Does anybody know what the plan for the six bed is in DM?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  17. Sprayway

    Sprayway New Member

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    Have you been given any information about Japanese knotweed in the estate? It has just come to light for us and we are very surprised to learn of it so late in the day...
     
  18. Bobby79

    Bobby79 Registered User

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    I understand from a friend who purhased in DM that this came to their attention. They approached the developer who admitted it was found on the site. They said that they treated it according to the guidelines. Although the developer was very reluctuctant to put anything in writing when asked. I understand japanese knotweed is prevalent in D15
     
  19. Sprayway

    Sprayway New Member

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    Thank you for the reply. Do you know when this was?
     
  20. Bobby79

    Bobby79 Registered User

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    First I heard it was about a month ago