KBC KBC giving me back my tracker!

Well another week gone and still no written confirmation of my rate change. I was promised in writing that it would be posted to me on or before the 19th February. I have phoned them twice in the last three days and was told they would email it to me. Yes, I'm in the fortunate position where I've been told the rate is rectified and I've been given my tracker rate but of course I want it in writing. Yet again, they cannot keep to a simple commitment to their customers. I read people here pointing out that we shouldn't take things out on the staff - but that supposes the staff deal with us in good faith and stop treating us like children. It's our money that has basically been stolen here and let us never lose sight of that - or allow them to. Believe me, if I could give Verbraeken or Deering an earful directly I would! Can I propose that all of us who have yet to receive the written confirmation to which we are clearly and basically entitled make this Monday morning a very difficult one for KBC? Let us get on the phone to them from 9am demanding written confirmation be emailed to us in the first instance and keep doing so. It's basic - you don't pay a bill without being told how much you owe. Thursday is coming quickly. Forgive my frustration but being kept waiting is stressful and we are the customers here.
 
I’m so sick of there standard 2018 line “an error was made” - it was never an error. KBC fought me to the Ombudsman and absolutely refused to admit they had done anything wrong. It’s only now that they have been caught that KBC are admitting they were at fault all along. It’s close to criminal behaviour.
I completely agree , I have received my compensation currently gathering info for appeals but I feel so strongly this verges on criminal , I bought it to their attention and they ignored me . I wish that a case could be taken against them , their ongoing arrogance and lack of accountability is overwhelming
 
@estuarine You're spot on. I rang them today too. KBC confirmed my new rate change over the phone but they have failed to put it in writing. I have written two emails (requesting a refund of the overpayment of interest on 1st February as it was not in my settlement cheque) but they have failed to reply to either. He admitted they are totally overwhelmed by the workload and the amount of enquiries. He says I should expect a letter of rate change confirmation next week but he told me my new mortgage repayment figure and it's a very big drop. Shows what a different there is between 4.25% and 0.95%. And yes, you are right again; they robbed us for years.
 
@Aisling1 'Class Action'? Not to mention the failings of the previous Financial Ombudsman. I will certainly be writing a better to that office to highlight how they failed me in my case.
 
Well another week gone and still no written confirmation of my rate change. I was promised in writing that it would be posted to me on or before the 19th February. I have phoned them twice in the last three days and was told they would email it to me. Yes, I'm in the fortunate position where I've been told the rate is rectified and I've been given my tracker rate but of course I want it in writing. Yet again, they cannot keep to a simple commitment to their customers. I read people here pointing out that we shouldn't take things out on the staff - but that supposes the staff deal with us in good faith and stop treating us like children. It's our money that has basically been stolen here and let us never lose sight of that - or allow them to. Believe me, if I could give Verbraeken or Deering an earful directly I would! Can I propose that all of us who have yet to receive the written confirmation to which we are clearly and basically entitled make this Monday morning a very difficult one for KBC? Let us get on the phone to them from 9am demanding written confirmation be emailed to us in the first instance and keep doing so. It's basic - you don't pay a bill without being told how much you owe. Thursday is coming quickly. Forgive my frustration but being kept waiting is stressful and we are the customers here.
With respect they have almost 3,000 people to communicate with and to expect them to give special attention to you is a little presumptuous.

They are following a system . This has been going on for 9 years. A few days here or there is of absolutely no consequence whatsoever.

You'll see it on your bank statement next Thursday if you pay on 1st of the month. - I pay on 28th of the month, so won't see it for 4 weeks . Do I need a letter on top of their public statements and letter of January 5th and phone confirmation? - Nope, couldn't care less whether I get a letter next week or next month. Though when it arrives I'll put it in a frame and hang it up. :)
 
@Aisling1 'Class Action'? Not to mention the failings of the previous Financial Ombudsman. I will certainly be writing a better to that office to highlight how they failed me in my case.
I agree I will too , I wonder will they be a class action taken , Im worried it’s too much of a risk to take for myself but don’t want to let them away with it either .
 
I have phoned them twice in the last three days and was told they would email it to me. Yes, I'm in the fortunate position where I've been told the rate is rectified and I've been given my tracker rate but of course I want it in writing. Yet again, they cannot keep to a simple commitment to their customers.
I would expect 100% call recording to be turned on tracker helpline at the moment. If there is any issue with the payment on Thursday, then there should not be an issue getting a transcript of these calls.
The people taking the calls are not the ones sending emails/letters out.
One thing I have noticed with KBC - and not sure why - is when they send me a letter for whatever reason, it takes exactly 7 days for it to arrive, whether its a response to a complaint or simply proving a record of a lump sum overpayment - it takes 7 days to turn up !

Can I propose that all of us who have yet to receive the written confirmation to which we are clearly and basically entitled make this Monday morning a very difficult one for KBC? Let us get on the phone to them from 9am demanding written confirmation be emailed to us in the first instance and keep doing so.
This is not really going to make a difference to KBC. Their call centre is staffed already for Monday morning - all you will be doing is blocking other customers from getting through, including those who are still waiting for an update on their tracker situation. It will also have no impact on KBC at all, it will just put their staff members under pressure, and I doubt many of their call centre staff were even in the company in 2008 !
If you want to consider doing something disruptive - wait until 25th May 2018 when GDPR rules come into play and on that date submit subject access requests in bulk about everything that KBC has about you on their records. They have 30 days to respond or are in breech of new regulations. If sufficient people do it at the same time, its likely they will not be able to support the requests.
 
I wish that a case could be taken against them , their ongoing arrogance and lack of accountability is overwhelming
Absolutely nothing stopping any customer from taking a case against them if they choose to do so.

For class action comments, I would prefer to see any change of law to to be reserved for those who did not win their cases and are still fighting for closure on this. For reference have a look at the EBS variable base rate thread on this forum as an example
 
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Not to mention the failings of the previous Financial Ombudsman. I will certainly be writing a better to that office to highlight how they failed me in my case.
I think you have a valid point here and one we should not forget. The FSO needs to move away from the legal side of the actual text in the contract but more around the explanations given by the financial service providers.

But similarly, Irish people do also need to educate themselves more in basic finance and also ensure that when they communicate with banks etc they keep records and ask for things to be clarified. Its amazing the amount of threads I have read that one day says "I was only buying a family home - I am not a financial expert" and a few weeks later go "but I knew a tracker was the most valuable mortgage to be on and clearly remember asking my broker about this to ensure I rolled over onto one".
 
That’s a big pity
Even if there were class actions - what would it be for.

They are returning all affected to the correct rate, they are repaying and they are paying compensation.

In addition, any legal action would be fought on strict legal terms and therefore such case would be lost as speaking strictly from a legal perspective KBC did not do wrong. And that's why the Central bank review is and was the only game in town, and rather than try and get "revenge" we should be thankful that there was one body and one person within that body, who listened to a couple of people involved with tracker customers (Padraic Kissane being one) and that when he took over, the first thing he did was to look at the tracker issue from the perspecitve of fairness and used the muscle of the central bank regulations to force the banks to change their attitude.

Nothing to do with politicians, nothing to do with ombudsman - from my own experience fighting it for 9 years, its simply down to two people - Padraic Kissane and Philip Lane who realised that whilst a very strict legal interpretation protected the banks, that simple fairness was not applied and that, in their opinion, was wrong and they set about correcting it
 
An extract from December 20th statement.
"The bank is now confirming as a result of a further review a group of 2,557 mortgage accounts are now identified as impacted for a variety of reasons. These accounts will be moved to a tracker and receive redress and compensation.
I then received the letter on the 5th of January that account is both within the scope of the review and included within a group of accounts considered as being impacted.
If they knew exactly how many were impacted on 20th Dec. Why would they send me that letter?? Then tell me over the phone im not impacted???
 
Thanks to those who replied to me. I think the key point is that they had committed in writing to send the letter to me on or before 19th February. We know the approach the banks have taken towards mortgage holders who have been late with a payment not to mention in arrears. We know all about the phone calls. This is probably the only time that most of us will be in a position of relative power with regard to KBC and other institutions with the Central Bank and the political establishment firmly behind us. I do believe that we need to mark them every step of the way. There is a lot of talk of cultural change within these banks. Making them fear us and not the other way round is one way of bringing that about. The key thing for me is that I want written confirmation in advance of Thursday. If you go to a restaurant, you don't pay around €100 because the server guestimated the bill - you pay the bill you're given and that you've had a chance to scrutinise.
 
@estuarine

Up til January 8th / 9th when you got the letter, you didn't even realise you were affected .

Some of us have been fighting this for over 9years.

I would have thought you'd be deliriously happy rather than look for special treatment.

Its a few days.

I'm sort of guessing that there's a possibility of an initial payment with the next letter just like the first cohort got.

Maybe that's why there's a delay .

But take it that between the letter of jan 5th, your phone conversation with them, their public statements, their official stock exchange statement last week and their statement to the dail finance committee, you have your tracker rate back
 
I heard the Class Action might introduce here allowing groups to take actions against banks but I agree with @peemac above. Many cases taken literally by reading the contracts might not succeed. I wouldn't agree, though, that "KBC did nothing wrong." What they did was cleverly and often deviously take people off trackers with the tools they had available. The intervention of the Central Bank has broadened this investigation and a lot of people have benefitted who would not have otherwise. It's quite unprecedented. I was abroad in January and it has even made news internationally. I am glad to benefit and move on.
 
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@peemac

@estuarine

Up til January 8th / 9th when you got the letter, you didn't even realise you were affected .

Some of us have been fighting this for over 9years.

I would have thought you'd be deliriously happy rather than look for special treatment.

Of course I'm happy, but you seem to miss the point that I'm not looking for special treatment, rather to simply hold them to their commitments. I take the broad thrust of your post absolutely but I am a tad surprised at your personal tone. I commend you and all those who have been fighting this for so long but that doesn't make the rest of us any less entitled to take a stand or express our views. I'm sorry but I'm not in the business of thanking thieves for returning stolen property! Anyway, let's not argue among ourselves here, we're all on the same side and you are almost certainly right that we'll all be a lot happier by next weekend.
 
In addition, any legal action would be fought on strict legal terms and therefore such case would be lost as speaking strictly from a legal perspective KBC did not do wrong.

This is a very valid point that people seem to constantly forget. No mortgage contract that has been redressed here ever said the mortgage holder would roll onto a tracker when the fixed period expired. If it did, the banks would have given the tracker back years ago.
At best some of the terms are grey - but in a lot of cases they clearly state the customer is going onto a variable mortgage. How the central bank managed to convince KBC to return all customer applied during the flyer window is a mystery to me. It would have impacted some customers yes, but I am guessing we are talking about a fraction at the time. If each of the 650 customer had a lie detector test put on and asked if they had seen or discussed the flyer with their broker and that was a major consideration in going for the mortgage, I genuinely do not know how many would pass?

Under strict legal interpretation of the terms of the mortgage agreement very very few customers would be back on the trackers at this point.

What needs to change is for the FSO to move away from taking a court approach and genuinely taking a fairness approach in their assessments. They need to look at how would 'Joe Bloggs' on the street understand what is being said/written down, not a senior council in the law court or the legal team at the financial institution. Only then will we see a material change

And I will say this again, Irish people need to be more financially aware and understand what they are signing and not blindly sign documents without reading and understanding them. In general, as a nation we are generally financially illiterate and very poor at things like budgeting, financial planning etc. If I hear another person tell me they spoke to the independent financial adviser at the bank, I will scream !!!

its simply down to two people - Padraic Kissane and Philip Lane who realised that whilst a very strict legal interpretation protected the banks, that simple fairness was not applied and that, in their opinion, was wrong and they set about correcting it
Absolutely 100% ...

And that's why the Central bank review is and was the only game in town
And this is why I have genuine empathy for those who have not got their trackers back at this point. I don't believe they will get them in a court case. If you look at the 'EBS variable base rate' thread, you will see people who genuinely believe they have a case - but I am genuinely fearful for the outcome of it. I feel there will be a lot of disappointed people left at the end of it !
 
I wouldn't agree, though, that "KBC did nothing wrong." What they did was cleverly and often deviously take people off trackers with the tools they had available.
I think you need to differentiate between KBC doing nothing wrong in a legal and moral sense?
What they done was interpret the legal wording of the mortgage agreement to the letter of the law from their point of view. In a major financial crises they used the tools available to them, based on advise no doubt from their legal teams. The FSO backed them in most of the complaints taken against them.
Morally is a totally different thing and much harder to prove !

I believe the only people who were taken off their trackers against their will are those who had to restructure
All others voluntarily gave them up initially to fix their rate, but did not get clarity on what they would be returning to when the fixed period expired
 
I had to restructure in January 2009. That was how they got my tracker rate from me. it only took 9 years to get it back! And the FSO did nothing to help. KBC never thought they would have to give those trackers back. Believe me; in November 2013 I sat in an office in KBC when they casually admitted "I know there's an issue with a tracker rate but that rate is gone now." They had closed the book on all those trackers and firmly believed they were in the past. don't underestimate how they tried to get away with it. @gnf_ireland
 
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