Thanks a million. I'll clarify a few bits. In 2006 loan was split 1/3 tracker and 2/3 fixed for 2 years . After 2 years in March 08 I was only offered fixed again or variable for whole loan amount not split so I fixed the whole 3/3 for 2 more years. The rectification will be on the tracker 1/3 presumably because I should have been offered it again after fixed period. The 2/3 was never on a tracker nor had entitlement to one I think . So since 2008 the loan has been treated as a whole and on fixed rates. When I made the overpayment the whole loan was on a fixed rate.
KBC KBC giving me back my tracker!
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gnf_ireland
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so just to clarify, when you made the overpayment the whole loan was fixed or variable? I am gathering from above it was fixed.
Did you pay any break fees on the mortgage when you overpaid on a fixed loan?
KBC had a feature on their mortgages which allows overpayments to be withdrawn on request. The feature was removed in 2013, but probably applies to your original mortgage. Can you check your mortgage agreement if it does, and then request the funds to be redrawn. This will increase the tracker amount by 50k. Then make an overpayment against the variable portion (clearly stating that) of 50k and you are quids in. This would be the easiest way of handling the issue, if you have access to the redraw feature. It would be much easier than the internal KBC complaints process
If you do not have access to the redraw feature I would raise a formal complaint with KBC stating that the overpayment should have been applied to the variable portion of the mortgage and it is quite insulting to put it against the tracker portion given what has happened. Make it clear you will take this to FSO unless resolved quickly. Allow them a maximum of one 'stall' letter before formally requesting a final letter to take to the FSO. I think it would be very difficult for the FSO to find against you in this case. The reality is if the correct mortgage rates had been in place at the time of the overpayment, then you would have specified the portion of it to be applied again. But since KBC had incorrectly taken you off your tracker, it was simply one mortgage rate and therefore made no difference.
Thanks gnf. We were definitely told at the time of overpayment we could withdraw again in future if necessary so I will look into that.
One other question, in March 08 when my 2/3 fixed rate was finished kbc are saying I should have been offered a tracker on the other 1/3 instead of having to fix the whole lot . But if I was offered a tracker on part of the mortgage then, surely it should have been an option for the whole mortgage as tracker products were still available at the time??
One other question, in March 08 when my 2/3 fixed rate was finished kbc are saying I should have been offered a tracker on the other 1/3 instead of having to fix the whole lot . But if I was offered a tracker on part of the mortgage then, surely it should have been an option for the whole mortgage as tracker products were still available at the time??
gnf_ireland
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Told versus in the mortgage agreement
sorry to be a stickler here but surely after everything we all need to realise its about whats written down, not what someone told us verbally !! Not having a go at you here I will add@WILLOW This is most unusual and contradicts KBC's evidence to the Oireachtas finance committee where they made it clear that they had conceded on all accounts deemed impacted and all rates would be rectified by 1st March. I am wondering if this is a case of having to ask the right question to get the right answer - more disgraceful behaviour if so. It is absolutely the case that redress and compensation have not yet been determined for all impacted accounts but, as I've said, at the finance committee there was no doubt that those of us who got the 5th January letter will be rate rectified, redressed and compensated. I would urge you to contact them again and ask specifically about rate rectification if you didn't do so yesterday. If indeed they haven't yet rectified your rate they are in breach of assurances given to the Oireachtas finance committee and I would immediately raise a formal complaint and consider contacting a member of the finance committee to alert them.
gnf_ireland
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If you fixed in March 2006, you have no entitlement to automatically roll onto a tracker in March 2008, even if you went through a broker. The whole thing with the infamous flyer is focused around the November 2006 to February 2008 dates.
Obviously if your mortgage agreement states you can roll onto a tracker once the fixed period ended, then you have a case if you were not offered one.
In March 2008 KBC were still offering trackers. However, if you were not offered one as the available options at that point, then you may have a case (others can comment on that cohort), but I would imagine there was some level of onus on you to ask for one. If you asked for one and were refused, then that may be a different case.
Obviously if your mortgage agreement states you can roll onto a tracker once the fixed period ended, then you have a case if you were not offered one.
In March 2008 KBC were still offering trackers. However, if you were not offered one as the available options at that point, then you may have a case (others can comment on that cohort), but I would imagine there was some level of onus on you to ask for one. If you asked for one and were refused, then that may be a different case.
When you say you were only offered fixed or variable again, was this in writing? Do you have a copy of the documents? Did you ask about the possibility of a tracker etc?
gnf_ireland
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I am wondering if all customers who call into the explicit dates they gave to the committee will be resolved by 1st March, and those around it will take a bit longer.
From my personal experience with KBC on other matters, timeliness is not a strong point of theirs !
At the end of the fixed period 2006-2008 they just sent me a fixed rate instruction form with the available fixed options. I enquired as to the alternative to fixed and was quoted the higher variable rate so I fixed again.
Again I can't see how if they should have offered the tracker on the 1/3 why they wouldn't have to offer it on the remainder as an option. I don't recall whether I asked for a tracker or not so I can't prove that part.
Thanks for the reply. I will ring back and look for clarification on my account, but I wonder are they just spouting out the words as per the letter I got as it does say "that if I dont hear anything by the end of March that there will be a further correspondence" or something like that anyway.
I phoned KBC for an update on my account as today is last day for any changes to accounts for 1st March repayment. They confirmed there has been an error on my account and the 1st step to avoid further harm to the customer is rate rectification! As a result, my rate of 4.25% is now 0.95% They will be in contact again by end of March re redress and compensation. Absolutely incredible news. So relieved and a little emotional when I think of the 9 years of stress paying at that higher rate. Better times ahead. Thanks again to all on this forum and elsewhere who have worked so hard to achieve this.
gnf_ireland
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I think everyone on this forum is absolutely delighted for you. Personally, I would recommend a little family holiday when the redress comes through (assuming finances allow it), just to try and put it all behind you. That and a nice bottle of wine !
Agree 100% with this, and there is absolutely no doubt some have put in storming efforts in pursuit of this. The name Padraig Kissane comes up time and time again, and I do think those who have been compensated against the odds should use their financial advice money to engage Padraig as some sort of compensation for the efforts he has put in. It is likely to enable the continuation of his work for other customers on the fringes
For those whose news is not as positive, I appreciate this can be a very hard & frustrating time, but hopefully fairness will prevail to all who are genuinely impacted.
gnf_ireland
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Do you have this letter?
Do you have the detail of what you signed up to in March 2006 and what you were to automatically roll onto on expiry of the fixed term? Is it the "prevailing variable rate" or some other term?
Do you have that in writing or just a call? If you have it in writing, and KBC were offering trackers to other customers at the time, you should get an explanation as to why you were not allowed a tracker at that stage. My understanding is trackers were still available at that stage
Because that part was on a tracker and you were forced to give it up incorrectly. The other portion was never on a tracker and you probably had no entitlement to be on a tracker. This is not impacted by the "flyer discussion" as its outside the timelines.
In my personal view, for you to be eligible for a tracker on 100% of the mortgage you have to prove someway that KBC blocked you from availing of a tracker on the mortgage in March 2008, either through misleading you about the options available or some other reason. You will need to go through the detail of your mortgage agreement and since its a split mortgage, likely to require some sort of professional advice on it
Thanks so much for your help. It's certainly complicated .I don't have anything in writing unfortunately re the 2/3 portion being entitled to a tracker .I have discovered however from notes taken by kbc from phonecalls (data access request ) that it says the '300k qualified for tracker 0.99-4.99% or fixed 4.85%'. This was March 19th which is outside kbc ring-fence of Feb
gnf_ireland
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I am wondering if you could prove that trackers were freely available for customers who come off a fixed period in March 2008 and therefore you should have been offered one. You were not offered one and that may be your 'get out of jail card'. If you can prove you should have been at least offered one, but were not - you have the right to ask why etc. Whether this is enough, I have no idea.
To support this you need to know if other customers who were 100% fixed coming off the fixed period in March 2008 were offered a tracker. No idea how you would find that out if I am being honest !
The ring fence of February does not apply to you here. This was for customers who fixed (via a broker) between Nov 2006 and Feb 2008. You fixed in March 2006. I am not sure KBC would automatically have included re-fixers in this, as it related to a broker flyer and its very unlikely you would have consulted the broker before re-fixing in March 2008. I think that would be a very hard sell.
I've had my mortgage with KBC since 05 and am included in the group considered impacted. I have never received communication from KBC at the end of a fixed period (of which I have had 6 at this stage) as regards notification of end of fixed period, what my new rate/ repayments would be or indeed what my options were going forward ie fix again, variable or tracker. I have always just contacted them myself and enquired over the phone as to what the best available rates are and they always just sent me out a fixed rate instruction form with usually a 2, 3 and 5 year option to fix. My question is, should they have written to me at the end of each fixed period outlining new repayments and rate options or is the onus on the customer to enquire? How can a customer be aware of the option of a tracker if the available options are not given to you in writing? I know phonecalls are recorded but I'd be interested to hear what others experiences have been.
mccoypat94
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Thats a serious bone of contention.
I recieved a letter outlining why we werent impacted. They quote dates of phone calls , where they say we didnt make any refrence to a tracker rate when we asked about fixed rates..(as if they were going to give one anyway!)
However they have no record of the previous calls where we asked about rolling to a tracker.. very very convienant
I have dates and times logged of these calls however its impossible to prove...
gnf_ireland
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I work in technology in a totally different industry. Calls are recorded, but they take up a lot of disk space, even with compression. Back a decade or so ago, this disk space was very expensive. Back in the mid-2000's, all sales calls may have been recorded but its highly unlikely all service calls were recorded. This would still be the case in most industries.
Call recordings are then archived periodically, with most industries holding recording data between 6-24 months. I don't know what banking practice was as I have never worked in the industry.
On top of that, recordings are normally made on audio files, and the formats/encoding standards of these have changed over the years. If you look at wav files alone, there have been multiple versions of these going around. The decoders to read a number of these are no longer available and are out of support by the various original vendors (many of whom have gone out of business)
In addition to this, data protection rules (and GDPR coming in May) restricts the information you can hold on a customer. I am not sure if you can keep all service calls (enquiries about my mortgage balance) and for how long - especially if there is a risk PII data is included.
So in summary, its likely the banks CRM system records the fact an interaction has occured with the customer, but maintaining a detail of that interaction is another matter.
Note: currently some (pro-active) companies have deployed Speech to Text analytics platforms which convert the audio record to text and pass it through an Artifical Intelligence data analytics tool to get near real time feedback on the reasons for customer interactions. I doubt any of the banks would be at this IT maturity level yet !