Some more targeted education on the affects of fetal alcohol syndrome on the child's development regarding areas like impulse control and attitude to risk taking behaviour wouldn't go amiss.
Is it it time for "children" who commit adult crimes to be treated as criminals?
- Thread starter Brendan Burgess
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Sister Sara
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No of course not, my point was more the emphasis on social media following the crash rather than anything else. As a contributor on radio said over the weekend - its unlikely kids doing these things are doing them as once-offs, spur of the moment. Most likely there is a pattern of behaviour that has already been flagged for a long time.
The question is, to what effect is the intervention of social services such as Tusla actually having in modifying disruptive and destructive behaviours? Maybe they are having far more successes than failures that we do not hear about?
Certainly most of the 'trouble-makers' I knew of when I was in my teens would mostly mature, stay out of trouble, and live normal civil lives by their 20's.
Duke of Marmalade
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I think it is reasonable to question a large multinational which is profiting from the activities of a criminal gang.
Yes, 11 members of the gang have an average of 39 charges each. They should be in prison.
The issue is how to we stop others following in their footsteps. That's a far more complex and nuanced problem and it involves TUSLA and Schools, and the Gardai and Social Media companies and the children's parents and, more than anything, the children themselves.
TUSLA generally get involved when it is too late. That's not their fault, it's just the way it is. I think that DEIS Schools are probably the single biggest positive piece of social engineering that we as a State have done in this are for generations.
Most crime is committed by males between 17 and 29. After that it drops significantly. Teenagers rebel, and that's generally a good thing. Sometimes they have the strength and mental capacity to act like adults but lack the experience and skills to do so in a constructive manner. Sometimes they are just nasty morally vacuous people.
Duke of Marmalade
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This is what Gemini would do. No mention of the Cat O' 9 Tails. He's better at math.
At long last, someone makes a direct apology to "the innocent victims"
Instead of blaming TUSLA, schools, the Guards, social media, and society in general, today Jack Kennedy's mother Sarah, made an unqualified apology to the family injured in the crash with the car carrying her son and four others illegally, on the wrong side of the M9.
"Secondly, we all want to send our deepest, heartfelt apologies to the families who were injured. You are all in our thoughts and our prayers. We pray to God that you all make a full recovery. And once again, we are sorry."
Canon McEvoy, officiating, also did some straight talking when he spoke about "dangerous driving behaviour", "this criminal activity", "the innocent victims",
"Canon McEvoy went on to make a direct appeal to Jack Kennedy’s friends and other young people who are engaged in dangerous driving behaviour.
He said: "There is something I want to say, and especially to Jack’s friends, and it is this: if you are considering continuing this criminal activity, will you please stop? Just one word: stop.
"Because this is the end of it. This is a family broken, and the consequences of that will happen to you too, for you yourself, for your families, the communities in which you live in, and then you will have the innocent victims, like the people who are in hospital trying to recover. There is no need for it. So again, I say to you, please, please, please, stop.""
Instead of blaming TUSLA, schools, the Guards, social media, and society in general, today Jack Kennedy's mother Sarah, made an unqualified apology to the family injured in the crash with the car carrying her son and four others illegally, on the wrong side of the M9.
"Secondly, we all want to send our deepest, heartfelt apologies to the families who were injured. You are all in our thoughts and our prayers. We pray to God that you all make a full recovery. And once again, we are sorry."
Canon McEvoy, officiating, also did some straight talking when he spoke about "dangerous driving behaviour", "this criminal activity", "the innocent victims",
"Canon McEvoy went on to make a direct appeal to Jack Kennedy’s friends and other young people who are engaged in dangerous driving behaviour.
He said: "There is something I want to say, and especially to Jack’s friends, and it is this: if you are considering continuing this criminal activity, will you please stop? Just one word: stop.
"Because this is the end of it. This is a family broken, and the consequences of that will happen to you too, for you yourself, for your families, the communities in which you live in, and then you will have the innocent victims, like the people who are in hospital trying to recover. There is no need for it. So again, I say to you, please, please, please, stop.""
This surfaced this morning from the Prime Time team
"The wife of a motorcyclist who suffered catastrophic injuries after being struck by a stolen pick-up truck in Carlow in recent weeks has spoken about the devastating impact the crash has had on their family...
Hari Priya Kuber Singh's husband, Jackson, was stopped at traffic lights on his way to work on the morning of 8 July when he was hit by a stolen Ford Ranger. Five young men are thought to have been in the vehicle, which was being followed by gardaí.
Dashcam footage of the incident circulated widely online in the following days, it showed the stolen pick-up truck hitting a car in front, knocking Jackson to the ground. The Ford then drove over him."
Horrifying enough to drive over the innocent victim and to leave him to die on the road you'd think, but there's worse news.
"An Garda Síochána said five juveniles were arrested, detained, and questioned over the incident. They were released pending further investigation."
"Hari Priya said she was subsequently contacted by the Fiosrú - the Office of the Garda Ombudsman - and told that some of those allegedly involved [EDIT: in knocking down and then driving over her innocent husband] were killed when a BMW they were in was driven the wrong way down the M9 motorway."
Enough is enough. This behaviour has now reached epidemic levels. Treat those accused in this sort of crime as adults and jail them pending trial. Get them out of circulation and protect law-abiding citizens. Impose stringent bail conditions if bail is deemed appropriate, and fit them with trackers as a minimum bail condition. Immediate arrest warrants to be issued if they breach any bail conditions.
"The wife of a motorcyclist who suffered catastrophic injuries after being struck by a stolen pick-up truck in Carlow in recent weeks has spoken about the devastating impact the crash has had on their family...
Hari Priya Kuber Singh's husband, Jackson, was stopped at traffic lights on his way to work on the morning of 8 July when he was hit by a stolen Ford Ranger. Five young men are thought to have been in the vehicle, which was being followed by gardaí.
Dashcam footage of the incident circulated widely online in the following days, it showed the stolen pick-up truck hitting a car in front, knocking Jackson to the ground. The Ford then drove over him."
Horrifying enough to drive over the innocent victim and to leave him to die on the road you'd think, but there's worse news.
"An Garda Síochána said five juveniles were arrested, detained, and questioned over the incident. They were released pending further investigation."
"Hari Priya said she was subsequently contacted by the Fiosrú - the Office of the Garda Ombudsman - and told that some of those allegedly involved [EDIT: in knocking down and then driving over her innocent husband] were killed when a BMW they were in was driven the wrong way down the M9 motorway."
Enough is enough. This behaviour has now reached epidemic levels. Treat those accused in this sort of crime as adults and jail them pending trial. Get them out of circulation and protect law-abiding citizens. Impose stringent bail conditions if bail is deemed appropriate, and fit them with trackers as a minimum bail condition. Immediate arrest warrants to be issued if they breach any bail conditions.
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New AI tech considered to tackle wrong-way driving
"AI technology could be used to help alert people more quickly to potential motorway incidents, according to Minister of State at the Department of Transport Seán Canney."
Canney is an idiot, one amongst many might I add.
The really simple, low-tech, cost-effective, existing technology can be put in place in across the entire motorway network in weeks and begin preventing wrong-way driving at selected sites in days.
Decades ago in car parks, metal plates on pivots were inserted into the driving surface. Drive across them in the right direction and they'd simply collapse and flatten in front of your tyres. Once you'd driven over them, gravity reactivated them and they were primed for action again.
Drive over them the wrong way and they puncture your tyres, incapacitating your vehicle.
There is no need to dig up roads. The metal matrices are manufactured off-site, delivered to the off-ramps, reassembled, and anchored by means of holes drilled into the road surface. The off-ramp is out of service for from 12-24 hours to allow the quick drying cement to dry and to allow for testing. Simplez.
While they're at it, whichever of the multifarious QUANGOs we suffer from in this poor country might look at how a car managed to drive through the flimsy railings on an M50 flyover and end up on the motorway. Surely Aramco is what's required in these situations or are we still building motorway safety down to a price, including back-handers, rather than up to a standard?
IIban available on request.
"AI technology could be used to help alert people more quickly to potential motorway incidents, according to Minister of State at the Department of Transport Seán Canney."
Canney is an idiot, one amongst many might I add.
The really simple, low-tech, cost-effective, existing technology can be put in place in across the entire motorway network in weeks and begin preventing wrong-way driving at selected sites in days.
Decades ago in car parks, metal plates on pivots were inserted into the driving surface. Drive across them in the right direction and they'd simply collapse and flatten in front of your tyres. Once you'd driven over them, gravity reactivated them and they were primed for action again.
Drive over them the wrong way and they puncture your tyres, incapacitating your vehicle.
There is no need to dig up roads. The metal matrices are manufactured off-site, delivered to the off-ramps, reassembled, and anchored by means of holes drilled into the road surface. The off-ramp is out of service for from 12-24 hours to allow the quick drying cement to dry and to allow for testing. Simplez.
While they're at it, whichever of the multifarious QUANGOs we suffer from in this poor country might look at how a car managed to drive through the flimsy railings on an M50 flyover and end up on the motorway. Surely Aramco is what's required in these situations or are we still building motorway safety down to a price, including back-handers, rather than up to a standard?
IIban available on request.
Excellent. What an elegant easy solution.
I have never in my 40 odd years of voting come across a more useless and inept cabinet that this one.
I am constantly reminded of the film " idiocracy" whenever I listen to any of them.The dumbing down continues at pace.
High praise indeed.
There are more holes in Canney's notion* than any of Rab C Nesbitt's vests of old.
- They'll need access to the data from the motorway cameras to start building the AI. They'll need vehicles driving the wrong way on motorways to build and test the models. Are all the cameras networked?
- AI built (after how long, and at what cost, another children's hospital or only an another abandoned rail project ?), now what?
- Do we have a country-wide (or motor-way wide) emergency alarm system that the AI can use to notify motorists that vehicle(s) at location X on motor-way M999 are travelling the wrong way? Can he do this either via:
- the cellular network?
- the over-head information boards?
- Can he dispatch fully trained Gardai to safely:
- close the roads and
- pursue the death-driving criminal thugs?
- Canney mentioned the M50 as both the source of the data sets and target of this AI solution he doesn't understand. Listening to news reports it seems the M50 is primarily a big traffic-jam a lot of the time and most incidents seem to be rear-enders rather than deliberate head-ons like the M9.
* I almost typed "ill-thought out" before "notion" but that'd be too much praise as there's no evidence of any thinking
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Sister Sara
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I can't help think that with GPS, fingerprint tech, immobilisers, and the emerging era of driverless vehicles, that the technology is already ready and waiting to be applied to all vehicles.
- If its not your car , then it should not start or at least shut down within a few hundred meters.
My phone is locked without the correct PIN or fingerprint. Apply this technology to release the ignition?
I get an email notification if I log onto to my bank account on a device I've never used for logging into before.
I don't know why finger-print/PIN tech, or similar, cannot be applied to all vehicles old and new?
- In addition, perhaps a ban on the purchase of vehicles for persons under the age of 21, or with less than 2 yrs full driver licence, without an additional guarantor aged 25yrs+ (typically the seller) that will be penalised financially if the vehicle is found to be used deliberately in criminal activity causing injury.
I'm just thinking off-the-bat here not proposing fool-proof solutions. But while there is so much attention on TikTok, social media, social services, policing resources, training for high-speed chases etc, does anyone actually consider the oddity of high profile media attention on allowing teenagers access to smart-phones and social media, but very little attention (until bad things happen) on teenagers having access to motorised heavy machinery that can destroy lives in an instant?
Last month it was e-scooters. We all could see the damage and danger, yet motor cars, motorbikes? - it takes the tragedy's of recent weeks to invoke a political reaction??
- If its not your car , then it should not start or at least shut down within a few hundred meters.
My phone is locked without the correct PIN or fingerprint. Apply this technology to release the ignition?
I get an email notification if I log onto to my bank account on a device I've never used for logging into before.
I don't know why finger-print/PIN tech, or similar, cannot be applied to all vehicles old and new?
- In addition, perhaps a ban on the purchase of vehicles for persons under the age of 21, or with less than 2 yrs full driver licence, without an additional guarantor aged 25yrs+ (typically the seller) that will be penalised financially if the vehicle is found to be used deliberately in criminal activity causing injury.
I'm just thinking off-the-bat here not proposing fool-proof solutions. But while there is so much attention on TikTok, social media, social services, policing resources, training for high-speed chases etc, does anyone actually consider the oddity of high profile media attention on allowing teenagers access to smart-phones and social media, but very little attention (until bad things happen) on teenagers having access to motorised heavy machinery that can destroy lives in an instant?
Last month it was e-scooters. We all could see the damage and danger, yet motor cars, motorbikes? - it takes the tragedy's of recent weeks to invoke a political reaction??
The problem with that it is possible to do a u-turn on a motorway. The criminals can drive onto the motorway lawfully, do a u-turn, drive the wrong way, then do another u-turn and exit the motorway again. So that's that solution off the table.The really simple, low-tech, cost-effective, existing technology can be put in place in across the entire motorway network in weeks and begin preventing wrong-way driving at selected sites in days.
Decades ago in car parks, metal plates on pivots were inserted into the driving surface. Drive across them in the right direction and they'd simply collapse and flatten in front of your tyres. Once you'd driven over them, gravity reactivated them and they were primed for action again.
Drive over them the wrong way and they puncture your tyres, incapacitating your vehicle.
There is no need to dig up roads. The metal matrices are manufactured off-site, delivered to the off-ramps, reassembled, and anchored by means of holes drilled into the road surface. The off-ramp is out of service for from 12-24 hours to allow the quick drying cement to dry and to allow for testing. Simplez.
While they're at it, whichever of the multifarious QUANGOs we suffer from in this poor country might look at how a car managed to drive through the flimsy railings on an M50 flyover and end up on the motorway. Surely Aramco is what's required in these situations or are we still building motorway safety down to a price, including back-handers, rather than up to a standard?
IIban available on request.
An EMP device specifically designed for stopping vehicles has been developed by a British company. The problem is deploying it. Drones are not an option for EMP's as the device is too heavy and would also fry the drone.
Te reality is that it is very hard to stop this sort of behaviour. The most effective thing to do in the short term is concentrate on policing intelligence and deterrence in the form of harsher sentencing; increase the perception that the perpetrators will be caught and that they will be severely punished if they are convicted.
Dream on. Even if it were available today, the cost of retrofitting it to older vehicles would be prohibitive. If it could be fitted cost-effectively, it would of course open up the market for after-market "tuners" and hackers to bypass the lot for a fee. Back to square one having spent loadsa money.
Sister Sara
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I used to drive a 2014 Renault Fluence that had a remote keycard. The car couldn't start without detecting the keycard. An additional feature could be to apply PIN/Fingerprint tech to the remote keycard that is similar to your smartphone.
Keycard can't activate without a recognised PIN/Fingerprint, engine cannot activate without recognising an activated keycard. Quite simple really for new cars at least if its not already applied.
Tell me how that would work? Sounds like a lot of effort to steal a car to go for a 'joy-ride'.
The car used in the N9 crash wasn't stolen, it was purchased for cash.
Any competent mechanic, electrician, electrical engineer or reasonably capable hobby car enthusiast could disconnect a retrofitted immobiliser. If it's factory fitted that's a different story but any retrofitted security system can also be removed in the same manner it was installed.
Sister Sara
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Yes, and that just requires other workaround solutions. A 'L' driver needs two years accompanied by adult. A novice driver must display 'N' plate for 1year(?), so until a person is 20yrs they cannot have a full licence to drive. I would suggest applying a similar type restriction on persons purchasing vehicles that have not obtained a full drivers licence. An experienced adult 25yrs+, with a minimum 5yrs clean driving experience to act as some sort of guarantor/vouching for the purchaser for someone without a full licence - typically father/son scenario.
Its not a panacea nor is the tech but the more restrictions, hurdles, barriers to obtaining a car for 'joy-riding' the better.
I suppose I'm kind of banking on the louts involved in this activity are broadly far removed from such skillsets. I could be wrong, but again, its about trying to make the idea of 'joy-riding' as cumbersome an activity to begin with it that it provides a deterrence.
criminals please, as that is the word for their behaviour.
We can't even get a handle on who owns houses and land. We can't stop people driving around for 20 years on a learner permit. How would we compel people who own old low value cars, people who probably don't have any spare cash, to retro-fit those cars with immobilisers or such like, and to stop them selling those cars for cash?
I'm all for finding a solution to to this problem. I just don't see one.
The USA went down the enforcement route a long time ago; 1700 different agencies with the power of arrest and massive numbers of police with military style equipment. Ask an American police officer what they do and they say Law Enforcement. The problem is that law enforcement is only a small part of policing. I don't want us to follow in their footsteps.
The USA went down the enforcement route a long time ago; 1700 different agencies with the power of arrest and massive numbers of police with military style equipment. Ask an American police officer what they do and they say Law Enforcement. The problem is that law enforcement is only a small part of policing. I don't want us to follow in their footsteps.