Is it it time for "children" who commit adult crimes to be treated as criminals?

Purple said:
We can't even get a handle on who owns houses and land.
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Why are you bringing houses and land into this? Its irrelevant.

Purple said:
I'm all for finding a solution to to this problem. I just don't see one.
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If there was a quick-fire solution it would be introduced.

Reducing the age of responsibility for criminal acts; technology for the prevention the theft of cars; technology to restrict the sale of vehicles to unlicensed drivers; earlier detection and intervention of social services with children engaging in anti-social behaviour, etc

None of these are fool-proof measures but in my opinion would go someway to limiting and restricting this criminal activity.
 
Sister Sara said:
technology to restrict the sale of vehicles to unlicensed drivers;
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There is a newish online facility for registering new vehicle owners for cars/bikes etc instead of having to fill out and sign hardcopy to be posted to Shannon.

A fairly simple low-tech change would be to have the new owner fill in their driver number and a valid insurance policy number before the ownership change goes through. None of not-so-Canney's AI-in-the-sky stuff needed.

[EDIT] I know it doesn't sort out the problem with stolen cars, but it fixes some of the problem
 
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mathepac said:
There is no need to dig up roads. The metal matrices are manufactured off-site, delivered to the off-ramps, reassembled, and anchored by means of holes drilled into the road surface. The off-ramp is out of service for from 12-24 hours to allow the quick drying cement to dry and to allow for testing. Simplez.
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The only problem is that ramp speed limits would need tp be restricted to less than 10km/h, the sprint loaders that allow the spikes to withdraw can't handle higher speeds.
 
mathepac said:
While they're at it, whichever of the multifarious QUANGOs we suffer from in this poor country might look at how a car managed to drive through the flimsy railings on an M50 flyover and end up on the motorway. Surely Aramco is what's required in these situations or are we still building motorway safety down to a price, including back-handers, rather than up to a standard?
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I presume you mean Armco and not the Saudi oil company, but Armco barriers are not designed to handle head on collisions.

The fact that this is such an isolated incident suggests the existing barriers do a decent job. They are not designed to withstand head on impacts but to safely absorb and help control acute angle impacts. They could of course be made strong enough to withstand a straight in impact, but that would involve great expense and also mean they would not be as forgiving to the significantly more common side on impacts.

To safely stop a vehicle hitting such a barrier head on, you need significant additional deceleration space within which to slow the car.
 
Sister Sara said:
I can't help think that with GPS, fingerprint tech, immobilisers, and the emerging era of driverless vehicles, that the technology is already ready and waiting to be applied to all vehicles.
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A number of other countries use interlock devices that integrates a breathalyser into the vehicle startup. They cost in the ball-park of €6k for 2 years. The RSA carried out a cost/benefit analysis a few years back.

The EU are also working on proposals to limit vehicle speeds to the speed limit that looks to be progressing, and there is also an ENLETS program investigating the possibility of remote vehicle stopping. One of the biggest challenges there will be preventing abuse of the system.
 
Sister Sara said:
Why are you bringing houses and land into this? Its irrelevant.
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I was giving am example of our inability to regulate and control things which are intrinsically much easier to regulate and control than the cars.

Sister Sara said:
If there was a quick-fire solution it would be introduced.
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Exactly.

Sister Sara said:
Reducing the age of responsibility for criminal acts; technology for the prevention the theft of cars; technology to restrict the sale of vehicles to unlicensed drivers; earlier detection and intervention of social services with children engaging in anti-social behaviour, etc

None of these are fool-proof measures but in my opinion would go someway to limiting and restricting this criminal activity.
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Yes, they would make it harder but they wouldn't stop it.
 
Leo said:
the sprint loaders that allow the spikes to withdraw can't handle higher speeds.
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spring-loaders? I thought they were simply gravity-operated by weight. The 10 kph speed-limit shouldn't be a problem as traffic on off-ramps comes to a stop a lot of the time anyway,
 
Sister Sara said:
Reducing the age of responsibility for criminal acts
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It's currently 12 (one of the lowest in the developed world), but children as young as 10 can be charged with very serious crimes (murder, rape etc) in certain circumstances. What lower age do you propose?
 
Leo said:
The fact that this is such an isolated incident suggests the existing barriers do a decent job. They are not designed to withstand head on impacts but to safely absorb and help control acute angle impacts. They could of course be made strong enough to withstand a straight in impact, but that would involve great expense and also mean they would not be as forgiving to the significantly more common side on impacts
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The existing barriers are designed to crumple without breaking in order to absorb impacts at an acute angle and not bounce the crashing vehicle back into existing traffic. Barriers which are strong enough to stop a head on impact would probably have this issue and cause more collisions.
 
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Firefly said:
Minimum sentence of 20 years in prison, in a far-away European country, would act as a pretty good deterrent IMO!
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If it's punishment as a form of deterrent rather than a form of justice then why stop there?
What about Flogging?
Put them in Stocks?
Hang them?
Hang drawn and quartered?
Put their heads on spikes over the M50 Toll Bridge? We don't have the South Gate of London Bridge but we could get creative; maybe put them in the hands of the Jim Larkin Statue on O'Connell Street?
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Burn them alive?
Burn their families alive?
 
Purple said:
why stop there?
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You're full of ideas this morning! I was, of course, being facetious. But it's clear that there is no deterrent worth speaking of the moment. Also, the general public doesn't feel anything is being done.
 
Purple said:
It's currently 12 (one of the lowest in the developed world), but children as young as 10 can be charged with very serious crimes (murder, rape etc) in certain circumstances. What lower age do you propose?
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My bad, I thought it was 16yrs.

Why the identity of these teenagers is still kept out of the media for crimes such as manslaughter is beyond me. https://www.rte.ie/news/2026/0831/1589814-alex-deady-court/

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Firefly said:
But it's clear that there is no deterrent worth speaking of the moment.
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The perception of the likelihood of detection and conviction are the deterrent. Longer sentences are not a deterrent. If they were I'd be in favour of them but they aren't so they are a waste of money.
 
mathepac said:
spring-loaders? I thought they were simply gravity-operated by weight. The 10 kph speed-limit shouldn't be a problem as traffic on off-ramps comes to a stop a lot of the time anyway,
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There are gravity operated options, but they are not suitable for high-traffic areas due to the slow response time and they are more prone to debris like leaves blocking them, resulting in damage to vehicles travelling in the correct direction.

I haven't been able to find a single commercially available vehicle operated spike strip rated for more than 5mph, they wanr of tyre and suspension damage above those speeds. Most seem to have limited service life too and would need regular maintenance and upkeep at the traffic volumes on our motorways.

There are some remotely operated systems that could be integrated seamlessly into the roadways that could be triggered by law enforcement. They are designed to fully close a roadway though, so would need plenty of highly visible warnings well in advance.
 
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