Key Post I got cash back three times in 6 months

RedOnion

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@RedOnion , do you agree that it's possible on above basis? (Not doubting you Sean Og but just want to make 100% sure before I apply to 2/3 other banks)
Hi, you'd need to have your solicitor onboard.
You're applying for a new mortgage, but actually switching. There are documents the bank would expect to see, such as notice of sale letter from estate agent, rather than redemption figures from another bank, so the solicitor might be passing them documents that aren't relevant.
 

username123

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I agree with both people arguing over the morals/logistics. Its definitely a slight of hand at a minimum, but at the same time, its not anything illegal. I have finally gotten the house valued today by Ulster bank. Still awaiting my solicitor to come back with deeds for first switch. I will ask him during meeting about this, if he has seen similar before etc...he didnt bat an eyelid when I mentioned multiple switches anyway.
 

Sean Og

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Lads you are looking at this all wrong IMO. BOI, EBS, PTSB are all offering 2% cash back to take out a mortgage with them. They are not allowed to take the cash back from you once you draw down the mortgage. It is no odds to them who you are switching from, they don't specific that you can only switch from bank A, B or C to them. I do agree that it is playing the system that's all it is playing the system and when it comes to the banks i couldn't care less. If they want to offer 2% cash backs i will play the system as long as i can.
 

lotus17

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I am still waiting on full approval from the 4 banks I hope to switch to.

One bank manager has come back saying the underwriter has come back saying it is bank policy to be with your current lender 2 years before switching. I moved my mortgage 18 months ago. The bank manager suggests he can appeal this decision if I was to agree to fix for 5 years. The mortgage switch to this bank would be worth €5K to me in cashback. My mortgage is €250K. What would the breakage fees be if I switched to them, signed up for the 5 year fixed term, harvested the €5K cashback and then moved on to the next bank, the minute the cashback hits my account? I obviously cant ask the bank to advise on the breakage fee!

I have no interest in staying with this bank long term as they do not have a good record of treating their mortgage customers well. If it is worth switching to them for the 5 year rate, is there any way the bank could delay my move to the next bank? I would be anxious to make it onto Ulster Bank, my 4th move within the 6 month window to avail of their attractive 7 year fixed rate.
 

Sean Og

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Brilliant work well done. Red Onion is usually very good at calculating the breakage fees.
 

renter45

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After paying solicitor fees & breakfee I can't see you having any of that €5k cashback left.
Also the fact they are trying to lock you into a fixed rate shows they know exactly what tour at imo.
 

lotus17

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I agree, they probably have an idea what I'm at. I can make my decision on whether it is worth doing (if the bank let it through) once I know what the break fee would be. Another concern is the bank delaying my move to the next bank after I receive the cashback....can they do this?
 

Sean Og

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Absolutely not, once you have drawn down your mortgage you are entitled to call the bank the next day and ask for a redemption figure. With it being a fixed rate it might take a few days but if it was a variable rate you could get your solicitor to send them on the full of the mortgage drawdown plus 7 days interest and tell them to close the mortgage. Job done they have to do it. They also MUST pay you your cash back because it's part of the deal. Not clawback periods etc allowed under law. Plough on my son ;)
 

SparkRite

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I agree, they probably have an idea what I'm at. I can make my decision on whether it is worth doing (if the bank let it through) once I know what the break fee would be. Another concern is the bank delaying my move to the next bank after I receive the cashback....can they do this?
Of course they can, simply by adopting chicanery, just as you are, ie. "he's out of the office today.....she's in meetings all day.....I'll get them to ring you......it's in the post......sorry, accounts promised me those figures today..... we're just processing that now", etc. Suddenly all those days start to add up to weeks.
Remember too, they are not complete fools and if just one, gets a whiff of what you're upto, undertakings may not be accepted and they demand that actual title documents to be surrendered upon draw down, which they are entitled to. This is the way it used to be, vendors, buyers and lenders solicitors sat at the table and closed the sale. This does not totally put the "kywash", if it is only on your first (which is your only mostly above board) switch of your scheme but it certainly would be an unwanted complication and would have a detrimental impact on the 6 month limit.

I suspect, as stated above, that contract breakage plus legal fees may well make a severe indent on your cash back of 5K. But we don't know as yet just how severe.

You hope to do 4 moves within 6 months............the best of luck.
 
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username123

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I am still waiting on full approval from the 4 banks I hope to switch to.

One bank manager has come back saying the underwriter has come back saying it is bank policy to be with your current lender 2 years before switching. I moved my mortgage 18 months ago. The bank manager suggests he can appeal this decision if I was to agree to fix for 5 years. The mortgage switch to this bank would be worth €5K to me in cashback. My mortgage is €250K. What would the breakage fees be if I switched to them, signed up for the 5 year fixed term, harvested the €5K cashback and then moved on to the next bank, the minute the cashback hits my account? I obviously cant ask the bank to advise on the breakage fee!

I have no interest in staying with this bank long term as they do not have a good record of treating their mortgage customers well. If it is worth switching to them for the 5 year rate, is there any way the bank could delay my move to the next bank? I would be anxious to make it onto Ulster Bank, my 4th move within the 6 month window to avail of their attractive 7 year fixed rate.
Based on the 2 year thing, im going to assume this is from PTSB? I have full approval on variable rate from them having only been with current lender 12 months. They said it was case by case basis re: 2 years, and in fact they would allow you to switch after 1 day if it benefited so I would push again for variable rate. In fact they told me they would allow you to switch after 1 day with current lender if it benefited the customer, so it seems to depend on who you talk to....
 

lotus17

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Thanks for your help. The liklihood of a rate drop is very low so I’ll plough on if they offer the money under the 5 year fixed when it’s highly unlinkely there will be a break fee.

Let’s hope they facilitate me breaking out of the fixed rate in a timely fashion when and if I get to that stage and that I can be moved on to the next bank within a few weeks.
 

RedOnion

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Let’s hope they facilitate me breaking out of the fixed rate in a timely fashion when and if I get to that stage
There was an addendum to consumer protection code to facilitate switching. Since 1st January they've had a maximum of 5 working days to provide a redemption figure.

Even without that, MCD requires them to do it 'without delay'.
 

Sean Og

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As always Red Onion is a wealth of valuable knowledge in this field. That new rule since January 1st is just another great reason to switch. Everyone is telling us to switch, central bank, government etc, they are even putting everything in place to make it easier for the comsumer and still people won't do it and other are worried about Sharp practise :rolleyes:. Come on lads get switching.
 

jim

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Its playing by the banks own rules. If its chancery then so be it, who cares at the end of the day. Im happy to apply a bit if harmless chancery if i make a handy few bob out of it from the banks. No rules or laws are being broken.

The banks know the vast majority will not bother with this game and so their switcher offers stand and continue to win them lucrative business.

Im happy to be in the small cohort of individuals that are willing to exploit the rules and cash in at the banks expense. You'd be a fool not to. Why would anyone feel any loyalty towards any bank?

Sparkrite the criticisms you raise are pure nonesense.

1. Loyalty in banking dont exist. No such thing as bank refusing to do business just because you legitimately swirched business from them. If they can make money of you they will. Also its possibly discriminatory/unfair practice to blacklist a customer for simply switching their mortgage. Just woudnt happen.

2. So what if you get locked into a slightly higher rate... say 0.5% higher than alternative...and say for 1 yr - you can switch or apply for a better rate eventually...cashback received will far outweigh the additional interest. Its hardly a real criticism or a reason to not persue this.

3. Id love to know what holes they picked. If they were proper issues why woukdnt they be acting on them professionally in their jobs in the banks. Why would they not be stopping this sharp deceitful practice, whistleblowing the crap out of this? There might be pitfalls but nothing illegal or overly difficult. I suspect bankers are annoyed at idea of free money being given out.

4. And it is easy so you shoukd do it yourself. Its a bit time consuming but it aint rocket science and it is worth it.
 

misterk

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Article on the front page of the Times business section today regarding EBS changing the rules to be with current lender for 12 mths it quoted someone on this forum getting 18k from multi switches
 

SparkRite

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My understanding of it (report in Times) is that it makes little or no difference to the OP's scheme.

ie. The letters of offer are all based on your initial mortgage and that being stable for at least 12 months.
Which is why it is advocated that all switches take place before the LOO's expire, usually 6 months.
 

Sean Og

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Exactly SparkRite, that is why i tell people to get all the offers in first before you do anything.
 
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