Guaranteed - 45% Gross Over 3 Years-Muldowney Group

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z108

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They have an ad in today's Sunday Business Post offering "assured capital growth". Is "assured" stronger or weaker than "guaranteed"?

Brendan
My eyes have been opened thanks to this thread. I can see in todays copy of the Sunday Business Post that Muldowneys arent the only ones making these kinds of promises.
 

CCOVICH

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CCOVICH: I agree they could be more informative on AAM. Maybe they dont see it as a customer puller.
Well by NOT posting here, and by NOT providing terms and conditions in public, they are doing themselves no favours......



kgbm said:
But do you see my point about people being uninformed.
I would welcome any information that would be provided on AAM-I don't trust sales people, so don't intend to call anyone.

kgbm said:
IF ANYONE wants to see the prospectus I would be happy to email it to them via PM .
Is this allowed?
 

woods

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I think only an employee of Muldowney's would be allowed to pass on such information. Makes you think ...
I am pretty sure that there is no small print saying that the information can not be passed on.
They would probably be delighted if it was. It is free advertising.
 

CCOVICH

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I am pretty sure that there is no small print saying that the information can not be passed on.
They would probably be delighted if it was. It is free advertising.
If this is the case, and you have the prospectus, could you provide a summary of the key points here?
 

ClubMan

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what I have been told by their sales manager

...

I was told that the money they will make will be far in excess of 15%
So - a salesman told you that the guaranteed returns were in excess of 15% p.a. and that they would pay out 15% to punters and you're impressed to the extent of considering investing?
We invest money with banks, and other financial institutions albeit small amounts without reading small print sometimes(deposits)
Speak for yourself.
we are sometimes more willing to invest where our capital is not gauranteed (eg shares).
Yes - the risk/reward profile of certain investments usually means no guaranteed capital or investment growth in exchange for the potential to earn better than deposit (for example) returns over the long term. An investment that guarantees capital and 15% p.a. returns sounds extraordinary and, as ever, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. We don't have any evidence at all that these returns are achievable and there is no reasonable explanation for how they could be in the current economic climate.
 

Humpback

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A very interesting thread. Just finished reading through it now. Found this comment from kgbm a bit weird, given all the talk so far about guarantees etc.

I think it is acheivable
Why would there be any doubt over a guaranteed return?

Is it my reading (though this doesn't seem to have been focused on, and I might therefore have it wrong) that you're guaranteed your return, but not your initial capital invested?

Also, if there is a €15k dividend per year on a €100k investment, this would be taxed at the top rate (most likely) of income tax rather than any CGT being withheld?
 

oldtimer

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I received the prospectus and read it. Having read it still wasn't happy (1) like Ccovich, I do not trust salespersons (2) didn't like first page which stated ''the Client agrees not to discuss, copy or distribute this document or its contents to any third party without express authority of Muldowny property Services Ltd and hereby also agrees that contravening this agreement may result in legal proceedings being instigated.'' I asked imyself the question, why cannot I discuss this on AAM? I depend on this forum for financial advice from people who are knowledgeable, honest and open. It is a fair forum and very well supervised. In my opinion Muldowney have nothing to fear. They have made a massive statement guaranteeing 45% over 3 years - I think they should show openly here how that can be done
 

CCOVICH

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So kgbm, it would appear that you CANNOT pass the prospectus on to third parties worth permission from Muldowney.
 
Z

z108

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''the Client agrees not to discuss, copy or distribute this document or its contents to any third party without express authority of Muldowny property Services Ltd and hereby also agrees that contravening this agreement may result in legal proceedings being instigated.''

I dont get it. I live in a free country.. apparently. Nobody should be allowed subvert honest journalism and reporting of facts .


But if pedantic points have to be made : You are not a client therefore "the Client agrees" does not apply to you the reader of the prospectus.

How could reading the prospectus engage the reader into a contract of secrecy against his will ?
 

Sarsfield

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''the Client agrees not to discuss, copy or distribute this document or its contents to any third party without express authority of Muldowny property Services Ltd and hereby also agrees that contravening this agreement may result in legal proceedings being instigated.''
tbh, that reads like the warning in a Nigerian 419 scam letter. "For security reasons, do not discuss this offer with anyone". In other words, "if anyone smarter than you reads this we're snookered".
 

room305

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I think the "agrees not to discuss" rider is a bit much. Is this an investment opportunity or inducement into the membership of some shadowy cult?

I find it very difficult to believe that Muldowney could successfully take a civil case against someone for posting a synopsis of their prospectus (it's just a prospectus for god sake - what commerically sensitive information can a prospectus contain?). As sign points out, how can you be a client if you are only seeking information about their investment opportunities?

That said, I would certainly discourage people from doing so just in case.
 
M

muldowneys

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Our position from our last post still stands, however we would like to point out that the confidentiality clause that seems to be causing confusion was reviewed recently and subsequently removed from the documentation concerned.
 

ClubMan

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Grand so - I haven't seen the documentation but somebody who has tells me that (a) it does not claim that capital is guaranteed and (b) it does claim that the 15% p.a. dividend is guaranteed and is paid net of 20% (witholding I presume) tax (and presumably a 41% taxpayer is still liable for the additional 21% and possibly also PRSI depending on the level of income received).
 

crumdub12

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Muldowneys,

This thread has received over 5,000 hits, obviously this issue is interesting a lot of people.

Am wondering why ...

MULDOWNEYS STATEMENT: We will not be drawn into debate on public forums as we always deal with all business with investors on a confidential one to one basis.

Interested Parties (maybe customers) have asked some questions, I cannot see what confidentiality would be broken by answering at least some of the questions to allay fears, maybe clear up some misconceptions about your product.

This statement only serves to raise suspicion.

MULDOWNEYS STATEMENT: We would also consider it bad practice to attempt to canvas for business on a public forum such as this.

Do not believe anybody could accuse you of canvassing, and you are the only people who can clear up outstanding issues that have been raised in this thread.

Hoping you can answer at least some of the questions asked.
 

kgbm

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all getting very interesting. just to repeat to clubman they stop the tax at 23% (similar to DIRT tax). And i agree that the deed of assignment does not state that the original investment is gauranteed just the 15%
 

RainyDay

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just to repeat to clubman they stop the tax at 23% (similar to DIRT tax).
WHat they stop or don't stop is pretty irrelevant. What really matters is the Revenue view on the investment. Do they have agreement from Revenue on the tax treatment? Do they have any opinion from a qualified tax advisor on the tax treatment?
 
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