Key Post Electric Vehicles

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noproblem said:
A lot of people are said to dislike Trump but one thing he's made everyone very aware of is the massive amount of false news and spoof being put out there by the media and others. All we hear of now is green this, green that and green the other. I take it all with a pinch of salt and this electric car rant by every Tom Dick and Harry expert is just that, a big rant. Let whoever wants to, buy their electric motor, but for goodness sake stop the expert advice from Dr Google lookers up, it's a load of cobblers. Like the pensions in this election, this getting rid of diesel motors is going to come back and bite plenty of rather substantial posteriors in the not so distant future. Long live diesel.
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Most of the advice here is from EV users who have switched from petrol or diesel, not Dr Google.

What exactly are you saying is cobblers?

Long live diesel? Have you ever attempted to walk or cycle through one of our cities during peak times? Diesel drivers are literally poisoning our children. At the very least it should be banned from cities for private cars.
 
galway_blow_in said:
Yes but no decent electric SUVs
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Mercedes EQC, Jaguar I-Pace, Audi ETron are all decent but prices are out of reach for many.

Kona and Kia Niro are in the bracket below that and offer decent ranges for reasonable money.

But yes, much room for improvement in electric SUVs. There will be new and improved EVs every year, as the R&D increases and technology improves. Quantities being manufactured should bring down prices too.
 
AlbacoreA said:
The price has been misquoted all over the place. Sometimes in Dollars, some times with VAT.
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The InsideEVs article included a scan of the the quote, Nissan have confirmed the €30k price is correct.


AlbacoreA said:
You were talking about used cars.
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Will today's new cars not become used cars in time? Or will they all be scrapped in 7-10 years?

AlbacoreA said:
Why because degradation wasn't a significant issue, and thus the premium for the lease wasn't popular.
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Degradation is still an issue, people need to understand it's not linear. The current liquid-cooled batteries have extended the post-initial hit steady decline to the region of 2-3% PA, but they will still hit exponential degradation at some point. It'll be interesting to see at what age range that issue is hit for current batteries. At least we're not looking at the ~2 year range for early 30kW Leafs anymore :)
 
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noproblem said:
Like the pensions in this election, this getting rid of diesel motors is going to come back and bite plenty of rather substantial posteriors in the not so distant future. Long live diesel.
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Good point actually! Long live diesel as a solution to our looming pension crisis. They can keep killing more and more and save us paying their pensions.
 
Leo said:
The InsideEVs article included a scan of the the quote, Nissan have confirmed the €30k price is correct.
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It also says at various times he was quoted €5k, €9k, €30k and Nissan said the price was changing and someone else posted a later (after the article) quote of 7k. Also these are dealer prices. Lots of comments how people sourced them far cheaper than dealer prices locally, as would people with an ICE car.

Leo said:
Will today's new cars not become used cars in time? Or will they all be scrapped in 7-10 years?
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You asked a specific question. I answered that. You're now asking will they all be scrapped.
This is something you can check already the first leafs are 10yrs old now. Oldest I found in Ireland was 2011 though.

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Leo said:
Degradation is still an issue, people need to understand it's not linear. The current liquid-cooled batteries have extended the post-initial hit steady decline to the region of 2-3% PA, but they will still hit exponential degradation at some point. It'll be interesting to see at what age range that issue is hit for current batteries. At least we're not looking at the ~2 year range for early 30kW Leafs anymore :)
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People need to know that different cars have different battery tech. Lots of complaints online about Nissan's approach. I think that was the reason for the article to highlight these issues and bring pressure on Nissan to put itself back on par with its competitors in terms of batteries. If one specific model of ICE car had a big failure I'm not sure we'd see the same scaremongering applied to all ICE cars. There was a thread on another forum where Nissan quoted almost 10k for a repair that ended up being a fraction of that when sourced independently.

EV's are niche market. There are no reasonable priced MPVs for example. They in general can't tow trailers. Lots of of them are 4 seaters or 2+2. Impractical for lots of people. I'm not sure why people are so against them. Their market share is tiny.

First of all, the Irish BEV market almost tripled over 2018, from 1233 (and 0.98% market share) in 2018 to 3444 units this year, and a more significant 2.94% market share in 2019.
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Sales – Irish EV Owners Association – IEVOA

www.irishevowners.ie www.irishevowners.ie
 
AlbacoreA said:
You asked a specific question. I answered that. You're now asking will they all be scrapped.
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You suggested the lease option for those concerned about battery degradation on second hand models. It's relevant to that suggestion that it looks like lease options are being scrapped, and so will not be available at all in a few years.

AlbacoreA said:
EV's are niche market. There are no reasonable priced MPVs for example. They in general can't tow trailers. Lots of of them are 4 seaters or 2+2.
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The added weight and aerodynamic challenges there surpass today's battery technology. No doubt it'll get there as battery density increases, but we're not there yet.
 
It is a solution for used cars. Note they are not scrapping it in all markets, yet. So in theory you could import a new car and retain the lease option.

But this is a circular argument. They are scrapping leasing as its a solution to a problem that the market (well certain markets) have decided (by not buying it) they don't want it.

As someone who doesn't own an EV something like a lease appeals to me, its a form of insurance.
Which makes me curious why its not popular. So hence you start looking at the numbers and the market feedback.
 
AlbacoreA said:
It is a solution for used cars. Note they are not scrapping it in all markets, yet. So in theory you could import a new car and retain the lease option.
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Why on earth would you import a new car? Makes no sense financially.

In more positive news, I see Warwick University researchers working on second hand battery capacity assessment have devised a method that brings the test cycle down from more than 3 hours to a matter of minutes. It'll be some time before it's commercially available, but if it gets widely adopted it'll give second hand purchasers a lot more certainly about what they're getting into.
 
Importing cars is more a thing with EVs, because there are often EVs in other markets (like the UK) that are not available here. So if you want one, you have to go there. But you were asking about battery lease. So many people who imported from the UK for example, also took on the battery lease. The lease option is unpopular here but you can do it.

The Taycan stands out for its advanced fast charging capabilities. At high-speed chargers, Porsche claims that the Taycan can add 60 miles in 4 minutes and 80% range in 15 minutes (most chargers offer 80% range in double the time).
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In comparison a Zoe can charge to 80% in an hour on a 22kW fast charger currently.

However in real use, charging isn't an issue for most EV users. They mainly charge overnight at home, or at work, and charge on street rarely. Then they only charge enough (top up) to get where they are going. Then charge fully at the destination. They think about it differently. Most people aren't trying to do the max range everyday, or even get the max charge every time they hit a charger.
 
AlbacoreA said:
Then charge fully at the destination.
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If the car has the option, they should limit recharge to a maximum of 85% to prolong battery life, and ideally try not to go below 25%. Going outside these zones increased the internal resistance of the cells.
 
I don't mean fully as in 100% literally. When I say fully I mean the normal charge which (I understand) is usually controlled by software. Both to prolong the battery life but also so there is a reserve so allow for changes in driving habits. So % isn't linear. Same on electric bikes.


pushevs.com

Battery charging: Full versus Partial

Batteries are part of our lives. They are present in everyday devices such as electric cars, smartphones, tablets or laptops. For this reason it’s important to know how to treat them right. We already know that TMS (Thermal Management Systems) are important to keep batteries at recommended...
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Leo said:
If the car has the option, they should limit recharge to a maximum of 85% to prolong battery life, and ideally try not to go below 25%. Going outside these zones increased the internal resistance of the cells.
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Really? I had assumed it was always best to change to 100%. Good to know.
 
Leo said:
Why on earth would you import a new car? Makes no sense financially.
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I see some 2nd-hand car dealers are now importing used EVs from Japan.
Leo said:
In more positive news, I see Warwick University researchers working on second hand battery capacity assessment have devised a method that brings the test cycle down from more than 3 hours to a matter of minutes.
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Have you a link for that @Leo please?
 
lledlledlled said:
Really? I had assumed it was always best to change to 100%. Good to know.
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EVs don't allow you access the entire battery capacity, so when it seys 100% on the dash the battery isn't actually at 100%, and when it says 0% it's not at 0%. Leafs have an option to only charge to 80% called "Long life battery mode" but it has been removed from recent models and the data from so many EVs in the wild seem to be suggesting that charging to 100% is not as big a deal as originally thought. What is an issue though is charging to 100% and leaving it there for a prolonged amount of time. You'll notice Apple phones now have the option to only begin charging your phone close to when you get up to ensure that while it will get to 100%, it won't stay there for long as you begin using it.

If you have the option in the car to only charge to 80% and you don't need the extra charge then by all means use it (I do), but if you're driving the car regularly and you do need that extra bit of cushion from the range then do not worry about charging to 100%, just enoy the car...
 
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