Delays in rolling out vaccine

[Paul O Mahoney]

Both sides claiming victory in the EU-AZ court case, but while the EU technically won, the measures imposed on AZ don't seem to worry them unduly.

The court, while finding in favour of the European Commission’s demand for interim measures, ordered only that the company deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September. If the firm fails to do so it would pay a fine of €10 per dose not delivered.

All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties

AstraZeneca and European Commission both claim victory in vaccine court case

AstraZeneca has been ordered to deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September.

www.thejournal.ie

So that's that finally put to bed.

 

[odyssey06]

So that's that finally put to bed.

Well actually I'm now reading that the court did find that AZ breached the contract by not using UK sites to meet 'best efforts' to deliver the vaccines, so there may be a round 2 on that score.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Well actually I'm now reading that the court did find that AZ breached the contract by not using UK sites to meet 'best efforts' to deliver the vaccines, so there may be a round 2 on that score.

I think AZ will just fulfil what the court asked,pay any money for shortfall, and wave each other goodbye.

The EU has enough Pfizer for years as its mostly going to be the booster we will be getting and nearly all ingredients will be manufactured in the EU in various sites. Add in the other vaccines, and theres not need a for AZ

 

[IsleOfMan]

I see that we are averaging about 300 Covid cases per day in Ireland. Do we know what average age of the people testing positive is?

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I see that we are averaging about 300 Covid cases per day in Ireland. Do we know what average age of the people testing positive is?

Good question, the data isn't being released.
But, I'd imagine its younger people , my son works part-time in a pub and a fellow worker tested positive, early 60s, and had one dose of AZ .
Our son went to Citiwest on Saturday for a test it came back negative, yesterday, but he said the queue was busy with all age groups being tested.

 

[Sophrosyne]

I see that we are averaging about 300 Covid cases per day in Ireland. Do we know what average age of the people testing positive is?

According to this from RTÉ News, it is 19 to 24-year-olds.

"We see incidence falling in adults aged 40-65 as vaccines take effect: one by one, from the oldest age group (60-64) down, incidence falls, precisely at the point we would expect, given the dates when each group was vaccinated and the time to effectiveness of the vaccines.

Interestingly, incidence has also fallen significantly in children of school-going age (primary and secondary) over the last three weeks.

Incidence in those aged 19-24 years remains high (twice that in 16-18 or 25-29-year-olds)."

 

[IsleOfMan]

I was due to get my second AZ jab last Saturday. Couldn't attend so texted back "new". I was expecting to have to wait up to 3 weeks to be called again. Got our new date yesterday for our jab today. In and out at the Aviva in about an hour.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I was due to get my second AZ jab last Saturday. Couldn't attend so texted back "new". I was expecting to have to wait up to 3 weeks to be called again. Got our new date yesterday for our jab today. In and out at the Aviva in about an hour.

Excellent, they really want the second dose to be administered and for good reason.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Excellent, they really want the second dose to be administered and for good reason.

Yes. It is concerns over the rise of the Delta variant in Ireland and of the possibility of yet unknown variants.

Following the news that 284 new cases of Covid were reported to the HSE in the last 24 hours, Dr Holohan said he is “concerned” by the growth of the Delta variant here.

“Today’s data show a concerning increase in transmission of the Delta variant in Ireland. We estimate that Delta accounts for up to 20% of cases reported in the last week. We have also seen a number of outbreaks associated with this variant reported in the last week.”

Sam McConkey, professor of infectious diseases at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, said while the new variant was largely affecting younger, unvaccinated cohorts, it still carried significant risks.

“It is not a trivial thing and it is not the case that there is no mortality associated with it,” he said.

“My view is that it would not be good public health policy to let it spread rampant in the population, and it adds a huge urgency to getting people vaccinated.”

It also might make the case for a more intensive testing regime, he said.

“It is more infectious so maybe we should be testing casual contacts, i.e., contacts of contacts.”

Travel was not something which should be encouraged he said, not necessarily due to the Delta variant, but the risk of as yet unknown mutations of the disease.

“Even before this became an issue, I would have said international travel is not something we should be doing, I’m largely with Tony Holohan on this. What I would be worried about is the evolution of another variant which could spread widely among people who are vaccinated. That would be a terrifying prospect.”

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Yes. It is concerns over the rise of the Delta variant in Ireland and of the possibility of yet unknown variants.

Following the news that 284 new cases of Covid were reported to the HSE in the last 24 hours, Dr Holohan said he is “concerned” by the growth of the Delta variant here.

“Today’s data show a concerning increase in transmission of the Delta variant in Ireland. We estimate that Delta accounts for up to 20% of cases reported in the last week. We have also seen a number of outbreaks associated with this variant reported in the last week.”

Sam McConkey, professor of infectious diseases at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, said while the new variant was largely affecting younger, unvaccinated cohorts, it still carried significant risks.

“It is not a trivial thing and it is not the case that there is no mortality associated with it,” he said.

“My view is that it would not be good public health policy to let it spread rampant in the population, and it adds a huge urgency to getting people vaccinated.”

It also might make the case for a more intensive testing regime, he said.

“It is more infectious so maybe we should be testing casual contacts, i.e., contacts of contacts.”

Travel was not something which should be encouraged he said, not necessarily due to the Delta variant, but the risk of as yet unknown mutations of the disease.

“Even before this became an issue, I would have said international travel is not something we should be doing, I’m largely with Tony Holohan on this. What I would be worried about is the evolution of another variant which could spread widely among people who are vaccinated. That would be a terrifying prospect.”

The key here is if the link between cases and hospitalisation is weakened by vaccination, that data is now the data that is needed.If its shown that it is then itll be a major step forward, if not then we might be in a bit of bother.

Many will argue that if this becomes a " young person " issue that'll be fine as " they'll get over it" and the evidence supports that but that's only half the story, living with an active virus in the community only leads to more avenues for the virus to mutate and it could avoid the vaccines ability to protect a population.

I just hope that by late Autumn we aren't back at square one, but that depends on so many factors with full vaccination of as much of the population as possible over the next few months the priority , with detailed analysis of the effects of the vaccination programs not on a country by country basis but on a global scale.

Since the start of this the world has been firefighting the virus, the vaccines were produced by global collaboration and it was proven that when faced by a global issue humanity has the tools and inclination to come together a fight the problem.
Now the world needs to put in place strategic plans to finish this fight but also put in place plans not only to prevent another pandemic but to react quickly to future events like this and that includes poorer countries , because you cant expect events like this will stop if it's only the western world is vaccinated.

 

[Purple]

The key here is if the link between cases and hospitalisation is weakened by vaccination, that data is now the data that is needed.If its shown that it is then itll be a major step forward, if not then we might be in a bit of bother.

Many will argue that if this becomes a " young person " issue that'll be fine as " they'll get over it" and the evidence supports that but that's only half the story, living with an active virus in the community only leads to more avenues for the virus to mutate and it could avoid the vaccines ability to protect a population.

I just hope that by late Autumn we aren't back at square one, but that depends on so many factors with full vaccination of as much of the population as possible over the next few months the priority , with detailed analysis of the effects of the vaccination programs not on a country by country basis but on a global scale.

I agree with all that but this bit;

Since the start of this the world has been firefighting the virus, the vaccines were produced by global collaboration and it was proven that when faced by a global issue humanity has the tools and inclination to come together a fight the problem.
Now the world needs to put in place strategic plans to finish this fight but also put in place plans not only to prevent another pandemic but to react quickly to future events like this and that includes poorer countries , because you cant expect events like this will stop if it's only the western world is vaccinated.

The rich world and largely white humanity has worked together. If there was really a global plan I'd still be waiting for my first dose and the old and vulnerable around the world would be getting their vaccines first.
Instead we've looked after our own first, vulnerable and not vulnerable alike, and now we are facing waves of mutations. If we do get a strain that the vaccines can't cope with it'll serve us right for our morally reprehensible behaviour. "As you sow, so shall you reap", as it says in the Bible or Shakespeare or some other work of fiction.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

I agree with all that but this bit;

The rich world and largely white humanity has worked together. If there was really a global plan I'd still be waiting for my first dose and the old and vulnerable around the world would be getting their vaccines first.
Instead we've looked after our own first, vulnerable and not vulnerable alike, and now we are facing waves of mutations. If we do get a strain that the vaccines can't cope with it'll serve us right for our morally reprehensible behaviour. "As you sow, so shall you reap", as it says in the Bible or Shakespeare or some other work of fiction.

Perhaps the proposal by the WHO to produce vaccines and other medicines in SA might be the start of something different.

 

[Persius]

I agree with all that but this bit;

The rich world and largely white humanity has worked together. If there was really a global plan I'd still be waiting for my first dose and the old and vulnerable around the world would be getting their vaccines first.
Instead we've looked after our own first, vulnerable and not vulnerable alike, and now we are facing waves of mutations. If we do get a strain that the vaccines can't cope with it'll serve us right for our morally reprehensible behaviour. "As you sow, so shall you reap", as it says in the Bible or Shakespeare or some other work of fiction.

You can argue the morality of the approach, but it's unlikely to make any difference to the spread of variants.

About 21% of the global population has received at least 1 dose of a vaccine. So if we vaccinated all the most vulnerable people worldwide first, it may reduce the global number of deaths. But there'd still be 79% of the global population un-vaccinated. So really, the same amount of opportunity for variants to develop and spread.

 

[Purple]

You can argue the morality of the approach, but it's unlikely to make any difference to the spread of variants.

About 21% of the global population has received at least 1 dose of a vaccine. So if we vaccinated all the most vulnerable people worldwide first, it may reduce the global number of deaths. But there'd still be 79% of the global population un-vaccinated. So really, the same amount of opportunity for variants to develop and spread.

I'm certainly no scientist but I would not be surprised if there is a link between the total viral load in the community and the likelihood of mutation. Given that those who get very sick generally have a higher viral load vaccinating the vulnerable should reduce that total. I also assume there is a link between viral load and transmissibility. I could of course be completely wrong.

 

[michaelm]

I could of course be completely wrong.

I will not countenance it . In any event, there must be a moral question mark over the idea to roll out an emergency vaccine to children for a disease that, statistically, poses little risk to them, while poorer nations are crying out for vaccines.

 

[odyssey06]

I will not countenance it . In any event, there must be a moral question mark over the idea to roll out an emergency vaccine to children for a disease that, statistically, poses little risk to them, while poorer nations are crying out for vaccines.

Yes, except in limited circumstances i.e. the children are medically vulnerable or are living with people who are high risk.

 

[michaelm]

Yes, except in limited circumstances i.e. the children are medically vulnerable or are living with people who are high risk.

Medically vulnerable, for sure, where appropriate. I'm dubious of the 'living with people who are high risk' reasoning, maybe if the high risk people can't be vaccinated . . but still.

 

[Purple]

I will not countenance it . In any event, there must be a moral question mark over the idea to roll out an emergency vaccine to children for a disease that, statistically, poses little risk to them, while poorer nations are crying out for vaccines.

Yes, up there on the dubious charts ahead of not calling the Rwandan Genocide a genocide.
I can't remember anything in my lifetime where the rich in the world so callously abdicated their moral responsibility. I find it utterly sickening.

 

[Paul O Mahoney]

Per the ECDC data 343000 vaccines were given last week, up to 20th June.

Biggest change is that 2nd doses now represent 75% of vaccines administered at 259,000.

Deliveries are good but AZ seem to be delivering in bulk once a month and with 92000 2nd doses administered last week alone (140 first doses) .

 

[joer]

The second dose of AZ is from anything from eight to twelve weeks. I will be eight weeks on tomorrow Sat. When I rang to find out when I would get my second jab I was told that I was in a queue.