Calling women "Girls"

Thirsty said:
"boys and girls thing is nonsense."

Nonsense to whom?

It's certainly not nonsense to me.

The words we use reflect the attitudes we hold.

Be careful of your thoughts, because your thoughts become your words, your words become your deeds, and your deeds become your character.
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I disagree with this.

thedaddyman said:
To me it is not always the word that is important, it is the context and tone in which the word is used. If I'm doing a pitch to senior execs in a major company, I'll tailor my language appropriately and differently to if I'm having a conversation with people I've known for years.
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I completely agree with this. Some people might struggle to find the right word sometimes or might just be in the habit of using a certain word. I certainly wouldn't take offence at the use of a word based on the word alone. Context and tone are important in conveying the intent.
As blueband said, I think we're getting far too PC on words and in being offended where no offence was intended. I would much prefer that people feel they can speak freely without having to second guess whether a certain word might cause offence or not.
 
Times change and we must change with them.

Once upon a time calling an African-American a certain name was considered acceptable. It's now considered so offensive that it is only referred to as the N-word whilst (somewhat ironically) other curse words are happily printed and voiced in newspapers and cinema, that word won't be.

There once used to be a toy doll, the first part of the name was Golly... - we don't have those any more.

Black and White Minstrels were once an acceptable song and dance entertainment, in fact they were even used many decades ago as tokens to promote Lyons Tea. These days 'blackface' is considered racist.

Female professionals such as doctors, pilots, were once defined by gender 'lady Doctor', 'male nurse'... we now view that as unnecessary and sexist.

So no, I don't believe you have the right to 'speak freely' and not be concerned about causing offence.
 
Scenario 1
Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
Jane: "I'm good Mike but I'd prefer if you didn't call me girl."
Mike (said with a wink): "Ah sorry, no bother at all girl, I mean Jane!"
Mike and Jane laugh and move on.

Scenario 2
Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
Jane: "Well I've never been so insulted."
Jane storms off in a rage.
Mike: "WTF is her problem..."

What world do you want to live in....
 
Thirsty said:
Times change and we must change with them.

Once upon a time calling an African-American a certain name was considered acceptable. It's now considered so offensive that it is only referred to as the N-word whilst (somewhat ironically) other curse words are happily printed and voiced in newspapers and cinema, that word won't be.

There once used to be a toy doll, the first part of the name was Golly... - we don't have those any more.

Black and White Minstrels were once an acceptable song and dance entertainment, in fact they were even used many decades ago as tokens to promote Lyons Tea. These days 'blackface' is considered racist.

Female professionals such as doctors, pilots, were once defined by gender 'lady Doctor', 'male nurse'... we now view that as unnecessary and sexist.

So no, I don't believe you have the right to 'speak freely' and not be concerned about causing offence.
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And yet, women play Ladies Gaelic Football, ran by the LGFA (Ladies Gaelic Football association)

and African Americans freely use the N word themselves.

Of course we should be concerned about causing offence but I do wonder if we perceive offence occurring when none actually was intended or perceived by the recipients
 
I started this thread and should have been clearer about my question. It was really to do with using the phrase in a work or formal context.
Talking about a girls/boys night out etc is, I thought obviously, not an issue.
 
That would be scenario 1 then...
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We evidently disagree on what constitutes respectful behaviour. However, I don't see much value in continuing here, so I'll bow out at this point.
 
thedaddyman said:
Of course we should be concerned about causing offence but I do wonder if we perceive offence occurring when none actually was intended or perceived by the recipients
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I think that's why it's phrased 'taking offence'. People often choose to take it when none was offered or intended.
 
I said I'd bow out of this discussion, but the suggestion that this is a respectful exchange has stayed in my mind, and whilst it might not make a whit of difference, but maybe it'll make some folks think again.

Scenario 1
Jane: "Hi Mike, how are you? It's a lovely day isn't it?"
Mike: "It's a grand day girl, more power to it. How are you?"
Jane: "I'm good Mike but I'd prefer if you didn't call me girl."
Mike (said with a wink): "Ah sorry, no bother at all girl, I mean Jane!"
Mike and Jane laugh and move on.
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Jane clearly states what she would like to happen.
Mike, repeats the very thing he was asked not to say and then winks and laughs, a gesture that undermines his apology and seeks to undermine Jane's request.

The writer states that both parties laugh; no they don't... Mike laughs, again why? what was funny? Jane smiles or laughs along to be polite, but as she walks away the smile disappears faster than Melania Trump at the inauguration and she may well mutter under her breath.

So if as you're reading this, you're thinking "what the heck, all about a silly word?" Then you've missed the point, it's about a man negating and disregarding what is being said by a woman; which is why this is not a respectful exchange.
 
Thirsty you are coming at this from one angle only. In my mind, Jane knows Mike well. She knows he is someone who might not be eloquent but she knows he's a decent chap who means well. When he replied with his apology he did it in a light humoured way and Jane knew this. To take offence at what Mike said would be to assume that Mike meant to offend.
Sometimes it can be disrespectful to take offence where none was intended and in a harmless scenario like the one I portrayed I think it would be ludicrous to take offence but hey maybe I'm just an ignorant man.
 
one more time...
he replied with his apology he did it in a light humoured way
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Why? Why not just apologise? Why add winks and laughs?

Jane didn't take offence, she stated clearly what she wanted.
 
Who knows Thirsty, maybe he's the type of lad who laughs his way through life, maybe that was his way of letting Jane know he meant no offence by it. Just while we're at it, Mike would have no need to apologise at all in this scenario. If no offence was taken by Jane and she stated her preference then it could have been left at that. Your language is interesting here in that you're expecting an apology from Mike and Jane stated clearly what she wanted. Seems a bit confrontational for such a harmless conversation no?
Getting back to the point here, which is the one made by thedaddyman "To me it is not always the word that is important, it is the context and tone in which the word is used.".
 
"you're expecting an apology from Mike "
I didnt say that. In yr extract, mike says sorry.

The only response needed was to agree to what he was asked to do and if he felt the need to apologise then do so in a straightforward way.
 
Here's a scenario;
A woman is in an electrical goods shop with her ten year old daughter.
They are being helped by a male shop assistant in his 50's.
The woman has her daughter bring the products they are buying to the till and in from of the shop assistant says to her daughter, "Now dear, give the money to the boy and he will give you the change".

Do you think it is appropriate to refer to a man in his 50's as a boy? Does it put him in a subservient and degrading position?
If the answer to those questions is yes then why is it okay to refer to a female of the same ago and position as a girl?
 
God help the makers of AI robots
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Current research is indicating that AI is tending towards learning human bias also.

For those who appear to find respectful interaction difficult - review the latest interaction between Trump and an Irish reporter for a classic example of disrespect in a professional environment.
 
Firefly said:
That's my point. God help them when it comes to "how" to say things rather than "what" to say!
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:D
Just imagine if they also have psychological and visual assessment abilities, one could imagine them asking for a persons name by saying something like "Please tell me the name of the fat ugly narcissist with dandruff".
 
Purple said:
:D
Just imagine if they also have psychological and visual assessment abilities, one could imagine them asking for a persons name by saying something like "Please tell me the name of the fat ugly narcissist with dandruff".
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The leader of the free world!
 
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