a Lisbon question before i decide

Latrade said:
Do we need to rehash the No campaigns oh so virtuous and accurate interpretation of the Treaty? Do we need to rehash just who some of these have sold their souls for votes to?
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Na, we need a smoke and a coffee. You're like a sentinel, a one-man Battle Group, on this thread :).
Caveat said:
But will Ganley be cross examined on his alleged ulterior motives for advocating a No vote? Probably, but he won't give a straight answer.
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If he says he has none then it's only not a straight answer if you don't believe him. Do Yes people really, honestly, believe that he is a CIA puppet?
Sunny said:
The 'Yes' campaign may or may not be over exagerating the benefits of voting yes and the consequences of saying no but I for one see more positives than negatives.
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May or may not? Do you think they are or not?
Sunny said:
You still haven't answered me where the ECJ has ruled that it is ok for the National Minimum Wage to be lowered. It's the problem with the 'No' campaign. It's all sweeping statements about minimum wages and abortion with no facts to back it up.
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As I said before, I never made such a claim. I said that the ECJ has undermined wages by allowing foreign companies to import workers and pay them wages that undercut agreed local minimum wages. That is a fact.
Sunny said:
Michael O Leary will wipe the floor with Declan Ganley because he is not politician.
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Neither is Ganley, at best he's a wannabe politician, let's see what happens.
 
michaelm said:
As I said before, I never made such a claim. I said that the ECJ has undermined wages by allowing foreign companies to import workers and pay them wages that undercut agreed local minimum wages.
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Local minimum wage agreements that had no legal basis. So why is the No campaign saying the national minimum wage will become €1.84?
 
michaelm said:
They posed a question, hence the question mark. They explain it, and their other posters, here.
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Oh my God, that is scary. I am afraid to see what they say about abortion! I have never read such a mis-representations and rubbish written about a subject before. Do people actually fall for this crap?
 
oleary is only thinking of his own interests as usually..whatever is good for micheal oleary is all that counts to him! a man who cannot be trusted.
 
starlite68 said:
oleary is only thinking of his own interests as usually..whatever is good for micheal oleary is all that counts to him! a man who cannot be trusted.
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Perhaps. But what are Ganley's interests???

"DECLAN GANLEY'S US business, Rivada Networks, is involved in contracts with the US military and other public bodies that could be worth up to $240 million, a company spokesman has said to The Irish Times. "

[broken link removed]
 
What relevance has any of that got to him being opposed to a federal europe? So the guy has a business. So the US military is a client....and??? If you want to get upset about some party involved in the Lisbon vote being friendly with the US military then perhaps you'd like to consider the use of Shannon airport by the same said military with the approval of our government in spite of our neutral stance. Neither really has any relevance although one relationship might be considered a bit more mucky than the other. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions as to which.

Incidentally. Say the Irish electorate votes 'Yes' this time around, can we do it again next year and, if not, why not?
 
Ancutza said:
What relevance has any of that got to him being opposed to a federal europe? So the guy has a business. So the US military is a client....and??? If you want to get upset about some party involved in the Lisbon vote being friendly with the US military then perhaps you'd like to consider the use of Shannon airport by the same said military with the approval of our government in spite of our neutral stance. Neither really has any relevance although one relationship might be considered a bit more mucky than the other. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions as to which.

Incidentally. Say the Irish electorate votes 'Yes' this time around, can we do it again next year and, if not, why not?
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agree....great post
 
Ancutza said:
What relevance has any of that got to him being opposed to a federal europe?
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The idea that the US military and associated interests (an extremely lucrative business interest for DG's empire) are in general, opposed to the possibility of a federal Europe, that's what.

BTW, here is a site I have just discovered puporting to expose the propoganda/lies:



No connection or no comment. No idea of the quality, it was merely suggested so I googled and linked. I haven't looked at it yet.

I'm off to bed. ;)
 
I respect the fact that we are a population of 4 million out of 500 million but as a Nation / Member State etc are we not supposed to have representation at the table where decisions are made that can have both positive and negative effects on this country ? Without full time representation we don't get to put our case for the positive or express our concerns at what we feel would be negative. My understanding is the first vote was asking us to agree to the removal of a commissioner and share the seat on a rotating basis, surely such a position is to be fought for not given away ? I believe the fact that our politicians were telling us to vote away our advantage is why so many do not trust what they are telling us now.

O'Leary V Ganley

Another farce the best O'Leary could come up with was Dana did better than Ganley in a previous election, sure he is boss of a big company that employs a lot of people, from my chair he had nothing of relevance to say that would help a person decide in favour of the treaty, in fact he may have done damage with his bully boy display. Depending on your point of view Ganley didn't appear to do much damage, to be honest I would have to see it again to ignore O'Leary and concentrate on what Ganley contributed.
 
oleary made it clear where he stands on workers rights! he is a bully and should be giving no air time.....anyone listening to him will surely vote no.
 
starlite68 said:
oleary made it clear where he stands on workers rights! he is a bully and should be giving no air time.....anyone listening to him will surely vote no.
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surely! :rolleyes: ... or maybe anyone can make up their own mind and not be swayed by two egomaniacs like O'Leary and Ganley!!
 
Just on the debates on Prime Time last night, for me the one outstanding argument made out of all of them was where Pat Cox pointed out the hypocrisy of Sinn Fein in claiming the legal guarantees offer no protection when the exact same notion of legal guarantees were used to great effect (and supported completely by Sinn Fein) in the Belfast Agreement.
 
Did anyone think it was ironic that Mary Lou was bleating on about the neutrality aspect and that Ireland will be forced to send it's army to the aid of others.

This from a woman in a party that had its own illegal army for 3 years.

O'Leary was pretty crap, tbh. But as a businessman he gave his point.
Pat Cox & Micheal MArtin won their respective debates. Thought Joe Higgins was out of his depth.
 
Sinn Fein are a joke. I have a poster not far from my house asking people to vote No. It says "Lisbon = more military spending. Vote NO"
I really hope Sinn Fein see the irony in they, of all people, wanting less spending on weapons.
 
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