Very bad behaviour at Mass for First Holy Communion.

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The links between the Catholic Church and primary education in this country are very strong and historical. In many cases the schools are the property of or are built on Church / parish land, staffed by teachers who are employees of the parish via the school’s board of management, often with the local PP as the chairman and/or the bishop of the diocese as patron.

It is unsurprising therefore that these schools espouse a strong Catholic ethos and are logically seen as academies for the preparation of young Catholic minds for key sacramental milestones on the journey to Catholic adulthood through religious education and practice as part and parcel of the regular curriculum.

So where does that leave non-Catholic parents who are faced with a Hobson’s choice when it comes to finding schools they deem appropriate for their off-spring? Apparently based on the postings in this thread, which is now several degrees off-topic, pretty angry and disillusioned.

But have their feelings got an appropriate target? I don’t believe so. The anti Church-schooling posts above seem to have forgotten a number of key factors :

  • Their children are pupils in schools that are more than likely parish property
  • The teachers are parish employees via the school’s board of management
  • The school’s chairman is more than likely the local catholic PP
  • The school’s patron is more than likely the local catholic bishop
  • As they are not Catholics, presumably they provide no funding to the Church that can be channelled to support its educational endeavours / responsibilities.

Rather than railing at the lack of facilities for non-Catholics in Catholic schools, why not direct that ire where it belongs, at the Department of Education and the politicians who since the foundation of the State, have ceded massive amounts of their activities and responsibilities to unpaid parish councils and boards of management? In the meantime, perhaps a nod of acknowledgment and a word of thanks in the direction of the Catholic Church wouldn’t go amiss.

How is it that the Church has played such an influential role in education and apparently continues to influence the education of young people today? I can answer this in another post as this one has dragged on a bit - sorry.
 
jaybird said:
Yes, historically the Catholic Church has been responsible for education in this country, and if the majority still wants it that way, it can stay that way for the majority. But the state has to step up to the plate to provide a proper, coherent plan for many more multi/non-denominational schools. the demand is growing all the time, and at some point its going to be a huge issue, as more parents get angry and frustrated at the lack of choice and provision.
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The problem there is that our govt couldn't find it's ass with a map let alone come up with a good strategy to educate our kids.

The Church has the expertise to do it properly, not to your liking of course but to 90& of other people.
 
Jaybird, If you can't beat them with a large stick, join them. Save yourself and your son loads of hassle and just become Catholic.
 
S.L.F said:
The Church has the expertise to do it properly, not to your liking of course but to 90& of other people.
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The only thing that the Church contributes today is the ownership of the property and chairing the BoM. It has no 'expertise'. The teachers, the principal, the BoM members, the fundraising cttee, the gardening ctte, the recycling cttee and the other cttees come from the community.
 
jaybird said:
2) 10% of people is still a lot of people.......
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Yeah but spread over the whole country.

For what it's worth I hope you find what you are looking for I just hope you don't bring unnecessary unhappiness onto your boy because of your beliefs.

My own view on the religion thing is that it doesn't do any harm.
 
Complainer said:
The only thing that the Church contributes today is the ownership of the property and chairing the BoM. It has no 'expertise'. The teachers, the principal, the BoM members, the fundraising cttee, the gardening ctte, the recycling cttee and the other cttees come from the community.
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Are they not also the Church?
 
S.L.F said:
... The Church has the expertise to do it properly, not to your liking of course but to 90& of other people.
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When you observe attendance at mass (and the sort of behaviour at first Communion that started off this discussion) I suspect that 90% is a high estimate of those who want a Church education for their children.
 
mathepac said:
In the meantime, perhaps a nod of acknowledgment and a word of thanks in the direction of the Catholic Church wouldn’t go amiss.

.
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I went to a Catholic School and I will never ever ever thank them, thank them for what, an organisation that hates women, tries to control people's minds, tries to control the laws of the state, tries to control women's bodies, where celebacy is something to be revered and giving birth dirty. And they are still trying to control schools. You got to be kidding right.

Any school given state funding should accommodate all Irish children equally. A quite simple solution is to have a religious class for those who are Catholic and say a morality and ethics class for those who are not, even if that amounts to one child. If a teacher cannot be paid for this extra class then have religion at the end or beginning of the day so that that child who is being ostracised can arrive at school later or be taken home earlier.
 
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Just a quick report - I was at a FHC on Saturday and I have to say that the congregation and children were all pretty well behaved. No photography (at least until after the ceremony) no over the top arrivals/entrances, no messing/joking/talking during the ceremony either.
 
Maybe we were at the same one Caveat - all the girls looked lovely (and no make-up/faketan or light up tiaras). A lovely simple cermonary.

Only problem was the dad on one of the kids who took 2 phone calls during the mass (one quick one & one that lasted about 5 mins....he must have thought nobody could notice if he put his head between his legs!!!) and was in & out like a jack-in-the-box. I think he left the church 3 times.
 
All this talk of the Catholic church's influence on national schools is a joke compared to the influence the CofI has over it's schools. In modern Ireland it is rare, and probably a hanging offence, to be excluded from an RC school because of religion, but it is a cornerstone of CofI schools, at least in Dublin.
 
BlueSpud said:
In modern Ireland it is rare, and probably a hanging offence, to be excluded from an RC school because of religion, but it is a cornerstone of CofI schools, at least in Dublin.
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I've never heard of this.

In my own (nominally) COI school there were more catholics than COI kids. Likewise the same with any of the Dublin schools that kids moved from to my school.

Are you sure this isn't just some kind of begrudging gossip?
 
where i grew up - and where i live now from what i hear from parents the comment about COI school admission process holds true - not that i have particular issue with it.
 
Local CofI school in my locality has a % of RC pupils (don;t know what it is but I do know some people attending whose kids would be RC. I understand there are 2 reasons....nice small school (reminds me of years ago, kids skipping, playing chasing & hopscotch) so the kids get plenty of attention. Also they have direct access to the local community college which is way over subscribed & they have first access.

My kids don't go there, but have to say, the yard mearly made me change them !! Mine can't do anything bar walking in the yard (4 yards, each the size of a tennis court where there would normally be about 180 pupils in each yard. Punished if they run, step outside the line or do anything remotely "kid-like")
 
Yorky said:
Couple of points:

Everyone seems to be referring to Roman Catholics as just 'catholics' which is incorrect as Church of Ireland also see themsleves as catholic i.e universal.

Also, the main problem with the so-called sacraments is the tasteless way they are celebrated after the religious formalities. This is a momentous day which should be spent somberly in contemplative prayer rather than receiving money, having a party and jumping around on a bouncy castle.I fail to see what these have to do with making ones communion with God; on the contrary, they're the antithesis. I spoke to a girl who had 'made her communion' recently and asked her what was the msot enjoyable part: The bouncy castle was the reply. I asked about the religious ceremony and was informed 'that was the most boring part'.
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To be honest what 7 year old child is interested in religious ceremonies? When I made my communion I was only interested in the cash and if people here are honest that would have been the case as well with them when they were kids.
 
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