Zippay - AIB,BoI and ptsb to launch instant payment service

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Fortune said:
So, suppose you had a friend who was bad with money. You don't hear from them often, but they messaged you on Facebook to meet up. They tell you about a win they had on the horses and treat you to a meal. You try to pay their share, but they insist. The next day you decide to send them the cost of your meal using zippay. Unknown to you, they have failed to pay their phone bill for quite some time and they have been disconnected. The payment goes through to an unrelated party who got a new SIM and phone number, and the number was recycled from your friend's disconnected phone.
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So let's work out the chances of this happening.

1) You have a friend who is bad with money
2) You don't hear from them often
3) They message you on Facebook to meet up -
4) They don't phone you or what's app you or text you
5) Although they refused payment, you decide to pay them anyway
6) They have changed their number

So what you are suggesting is that the 99% of us who will benefit from using Zippay should be discommoded in case you send some money to a friend using their old phone number?

Nah, I don't think so.

Brendan
 
AlbacoreA said:
How will it surpass Revoluts 60 million customers?
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Clearly I was referencing the domestic network.....because well thats the one that matters......99% of the use cases anybody ever has will be for be for domestic P2P transfer....crossborder is a piddly fraction of transactions.....so yeah as I said Zippay will have bigger network than revolut on the first day of operation and my guess is very quickly it will eclipse revolut in terms of Ireland P2P volumes and values.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
So what you are suggesting is that the 99% of us who will benefit from using Zippay should be discommoded
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No, I'm pointing out a ridiculous (but not impossible) edge case where using a mobile number wouldn't be a good unique identifier as phone numbers are recycled.

I haven't been able to find it but there was a story about an English school kid getting texts from footballers congratulating him on his new job. It turns out that the number had been previously been assigned to Sven Gorran Ericsson when he was England manager (googling just leads to pages of tributes and obituaries).

I generally don't hear from the couple of old university friends who aren't great with money, and only on Facebook messenger because I don't want them to have my number.
 
Fortune said:
No, I'm pointing out a ridiculous (but not impossible) edge case where using a mobile number wouldn't be a good unique identifier as phone numbers are recycled.
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I can't think of the last time someone I know changed their mobile number. I just looked at my most contacted family and friends - every single one has had the same number for at least 20 years. In that period I have moved house several times, so my mobile is a more consistent identifier than my address.
 
arbitron said:
can't think of the last time someone I know changed their mobile number
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There's some people on my phone who have more than.one number saved, and i never know which one is still on service. I just end up WhatsApping them as it figures out which number is active
 
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Fortune said:
No, I'm pointing out a ridiculous (but not impossible) edge case where using a mobile number wouldn't be a good unique identifier as phone numbers are recycled.
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Edge cases, fraud, fat finger errors, scams.....these things happen but should be seen in the context of the broad utility provided......and zippay is clearly going to provide a lot of utility and convenience to alot of people......seen in this light.....the externalities/issues with the network are more than acceptable. There are alot of other 'new' financial services (crypto I'm looking at you) where the same cannot be said.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
No, the best way to look at this is from the user's point of view.
"Do you have an account with AIB, BoI or ptsb?"
"Yes, I do."
"OK, I have you in my phone contacts so I will send you €40. ... 10 second delay...There you go"
"Thank you very much".
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I suspect this might be more realistic. Remember who couldn't find the Zippay option in their AIB app originally? :)

"Do you have an account with AIB, BoI or ptsb?"
"Yes, I do."
"Do you have Zippay enabled?"
"I don't know. How do I find out?
"Log in to your AIB/BoI/PTSB app and check"
..... Lengthy pause ....
"Hmmmm I'm not sure where that is, can I ring you back"
"Naw don't bother, I'll put the €40 in the post."
 
Corola said:
So that's bank transfer, cheque, Wise, PayPal, Revolut...
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PayPal, I've had it for years. I can send money to family with a PayPal registered email address, buy stuff online and collect money. The banks get nothing from this and feel left out. So there's a small PayPal fee for some transactions, so what?
 
mathepac said:
I suspect this might be more realistic.
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No, you miss the point.

Zippay is enabled automatically unless you have opted out.

The first time you pay someone, you might have to figure out how to do it.

But after that, it will be just phone numbers.

With Sepa Instant, every time I want to pay someone new I have to get their IBAN, input it correct and check it.
 
The banking apps are asking you to verify your phone number via two-factor authentication as part of the Zippay rollout, so an old number that's no longer being used shouldn't be included in the system.

Seems a bit of a band-aid ... I expect that phone-integrated QR-based digital identities (as have already been trialled) will be the eventual technological solution.
 
mathepac said:
PayPal, I've had it for years. I can send money to family with a PayPal registered email address, buy stuff online and collect money. The banks get nothing from this and feel left out. So there's a small PayPal fee for some transactions, so what?
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The recipient has to set up a PayPal account in order to receive money if they don't already have an account and they may (will?) have to provide AML identity verification etc. in order to do this. That's hassle.
 
Brendan Burgess said:
With Sepa Instant, every time I want to pay someone new I have to get their IBAN, input it correct and check it.
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I built a custom app for that in FileMaker Pro (or you store IBAN details in the notes section of your contacts app). Store once re-use many times. Its the same little app I use to store and verify credit/debit card details and make them available to copy and paste into purchasing apps, etc.
 
I assume that if I want to pay you €30 with Sepa Instant, after I input your IBAN, it will be stored so that I can pay you again without having to input it again?

So why would you need to store someone's IBAN outside the App?
 
ClubMan said:
The recipient has to set up a PayPal account in order to receive money if they don't already have an account
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But I, and they, have been using it successfully and securely for years. Why allow yet another way of taking my money to be added to my banking app without my express permission?
 
I don't understand your answer.

I have your phone number saved in my mobile phone. If I want to pay you , I open Zippay, select Mathepac, and pay you.

You are suggesting that with Sepa Instant I will need Filemaker, whatever that is.
 
mathepac said:
Why allow yet another way of taking my money to be added to my banking app without my express permission?
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I've explained why, in my case at least, Zippay would be a much more convenient solution to the issue that I have, that none of the other options are, and which would involve no hassle with setting up new accounts and providing AML/KYC information at the receiving end.

Personally I'm happy that Zippay is coming, to be opted in, and PTSB sent me an email that explained the whole thing, including how to opt out, very clearly.
 
letitroll said:
zippay is clearly going to provide a lot of utility and convenience to alot of people.
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The utility of zippay is allowing people to look up their contacts' IBAN from their phone number, and it's not clear yet if they will let you see than IBAN or not. What would provide much more utility would be quickly implementing SEPA Instant and allowing full functionality for interacting with non-IE IBANs.
 
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