EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
208
This is what i cant understand and have never understood, why are the CB, Padraig Kissane and all the experts in this area so dismissive of this group. The questions you ask B26354 have never been answered adequately, my partners contract has no mention of SVR, only VBR post the initial 3 year fixed period even though it did track the ECB at a rate of +1.25%. I was very annoyed about Padraig Kissanes reply or should i say his secretarys and my partner was furious that Padraig himself wouldnt even speak to her or myself. As his sec said, the banks will have had there legal eagles look at these contracts and were obviously advised that they were safe from a challenge so theres no point in throwing good money after bad. This advice may well be right but answers and reasons have never been provided. To me it doesnt matter that they only tracked the ECB for a short time, the bottom line is what the contract says and now i hear theyve acknowledged that the VBR is not their SVR. WHAT IN THE NAME OF GOD IS THE VBR IF ITS NOT AN SVR AND ITS ALSO NOT A TRACKER AND WHY IN THAT CASE ARE PEOPLE WITH THIS TYPE OF CONTRACT ON AN SVR. Its a pity that financially were not in a position to take a case to the courts as ive always felt a challenge should happen and when its been suggested here very few or any contributors were supportive of it or unless theyre keeping it private nobody appears to have gone to the FSPO although i believe that might have a 6 year statuteof limitations on it. If you could B26354, if you have stuff in writing that states clearly that theyve admitted this could you please show this to Padraig if you havent already because he is holding onto my file in case there is a development that changes the current situation.
Hi All, long time lurker on this thread (I have read the thread three times to try and get to grips with some of the terminologies).

My situation is a tad different from everyone here. House was purchased in 2007 with a top-up mortgage taken out in 2010 (all done with an EBS branch manager). Everything was going well until 2013 when a combination of illness and redundancy for myself and my partner resulted in a voluntary sale for loss, the house was sold with a residual balance. As we were not in a financial position to repay any of the balance, the value was written down.

This week I was advised by a friend to look into the mortgage and check to see if the mortgage and top-up loan were affected by the tracker issues. I have been on the phone to EBS three days in a row where I was told:

Day one: "You should have been offered a tracker"
Day two: "Your account was not affected as you were on a fixed term from drawdown"
Day three: "Your main account doesn't seem affected but cannot access details of the top-up loan"

Today (day 3), I asked for a definition for the terms "variable base rate" and "standard variable rate" and was informed the VBR is linked to the ECB and SVR is the standard rate. I then advised the lady that according to the jargon buster section in EBS leaflets (thanks to posters on this thread for this information), both meant the same thing... I received no response. I have asked for a complaint to be opened on the top-up loan and for this account to be reviewed, the member of staff said she would arrange this and asked that I email EBS if I come across any information which may support my case once I have received the paperwork relating to both accounts.

As my mortgage account is deemed as an older account and the top-up loan moved to a different system, it will take time to determine if the mortgage was affected. What I do remember is that we received letters advising of a rate change and the new monthly payment once the fixed period finished on both accounts.

I am aware that all this may not result in a positive outcome. We have disposed of all correspondence as it really was a bad chapter in our lives but I am keen to see what happens. I have requested information yesterday on the main account using the SAR form and as I now have the account number for the top-up mortgage, I have sent one-off for that account too.
Hi togger, if you have anything in print that may help please do let us know as we do need a lucky break or something to happen to have any hope of getting anywhere here, im not holding my breath though. As you can tell from.my previous post and the very 1st one on this thread that im a long time involved here and as i said previously my advice from PK was against us but that the file would be kept in case any new information does appear, thanks in advance.
 

Brendan Burgess

Founder
Messages
38,667
what i cant understand and have never understood, why are the CB, Padraig Kissane and all the experts in this area so dismissive of this group.
Hi Tony

The fact that Padraic or anyone else thinks that you don't have a case, does not mean you don't have a case.

I disagreed with Padraic on the BoI staff mortgages. I thought that they had no case, but Francesca gave most of them their trackers back.

So don't be put off by the fact that we don't see your case.

If a few of you think you have a case, then get together. Put a case into the Ombudsman. Don't assume it's time barred. Leave that to the Ombudsman to decide. He might hear the case and leave it up to EBS to claim that it's time barred. If EBS is very confident, they might not invoke the statute of limitations.

Brendan
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
208
Hi Tony

The fact that Padraic or anyone else thinks that you don't have a case, does not mean you don't have a case.

I disagreed with Padraic on the BoI staff mortgages. I thought that they had no case, but Francesca gave most of them their trackers back.

So don't be put off by the fact that we don't see your case.

If a few of you think you have a case, then get together. Put a case into the Ombudsman. Don't assume it's time barred. Leave that to the Ombudsman to decide. He might hear the case and leave it up to EBS to claim that it's time barred. If EBS is very confident, they might not invoke the statute of limitations.

Brendan
Hi Brendan, in fairness you have said that to me before and if i remember correctly i have suggested this before to the group. I feel if enough on this thread feel there is a case to answer we should meet up and prepare a case for the FSPO as i certainly cannot afford court personally and i dont think theres enough people to take a joint case. Brendan has said it here folks so if enough people feel as i do then let us know on this thread and we can discuss what we need to do and provide for an FSPO case. Maybe but maybe there are people who have already got a case in with the FSPO so possibly if those people wish others could maybe contribute help to those. Other than that im all ears as to what if anything we can do. At the end of the day if we got a definition of what a Variable base rate mortgage is through the FSPO that would possibly make or finally kill off this arguement. and why people who signed up for one are now paying an SVR mortgage despite these letters not being in their contract.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
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259
I wouldn’t say PK is dismissive of the EBS VBR group per se but there are customers within this group with different individual circumstances. He may feel some have a better shot at redress than others. Remember that we know some fixed to variable base customers have already been redressed.
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
208
Hi B26354, ive seen some different contract wordings on this site and youre probably correct but i wish somebody would tell us what a VBR is so we could progress this or close it once and for all. To remind, my partner went from a 3 year fixed to SVR in 2010 despite her contract saying she would revert to VBR and no sign of SVR on her contract and obvious evidence that the VBR did track ECB. Her contract doesnt have the wording ECB+...% on it however like some appear to have but i still think there is a case to answer due to the ambiguity and what ive said already on this posting re reverting. Its really down to what if anything we can do and any new evidemce coming out as we have been abandoned and left behind it seems. Im all ears as to what if anything people feel can be done if anything, the FSPO appears to be the only route and as ive already said maybe a coming together of heads to thrash it out and bring whatever evidence we do already have to the table from this site and other avenues.
 

WA12345

New Member
Messages
1
A poster on this forum was redressed and put back on the tracker because they had a fixed to variable base contract but also signed a tracker application form
Hi I have been following this thread for a long time, and have indeed myself been fighting my my mortgage rate for 2 years. Even though I applied for a tracker mortgage in 2008 I was told that they were no longer being offered, (when I received my information from the EBS there was indeed a tracker offer in it - I never received this offer, nor did the solicitor named on the offer) so I took the banks advice and applied for a 2 year fixed mortgage, this was to go to a variable base rate at the end of the two years. One of the specific conditions of this fixed term mortgage was that my tracker application be up-to-date. This has been part of my query with the bank to which they simply replied "sorry that was a mistake that condition should have been removed before you were offered your mortgage". I have had many other questions and issues with my mortgage and I have engaged PK, however the EBS still claims I am not impacted. If the person who was redressed in the text above could send a private message I'm would be very grateful as their case sounds very similar to my own.
I wouldn’t say it’s pointless as there are inconsistencies in the documentation that each variable base customer has received. A poster on this forum was redressed and put back on the tracker because they had a fixed to variable base contract but also signed a tracker application form. Other variable base customers have additional documentation confirming the variable base is a tracker rate. Some variable base customers have been informed by EBS that they can’t locate the loan application forms so it can’t be confirmed what type of mortgage the customer applied for in the first place. No harm in getting PK to have a look at your case to see if it’s worth pursuing.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
259
Hi I have been following this thread for a long time, and have indeed myself been fighting my my mortgage rate for 2 years. Even though I applied for a tracker mortgage in 2008 I was told that they were no longer being offered, (when I received my information from the EBS there was indeed a tracker offer in it - I never received this offer, nor did the solicitor named on the offer) so I took the banks advice and applied for a 2 year fixed mortgage, this was to go to a variable base rate at the end of the two years. One of the specific conditions of this fixed term mortgage was that my tracker application be up-to-date. This has been part of my query with the bank to which they simply replied "sorry that was a mistake that condition should have been removed before you were offered your mortgage". I have had many other questions and issues with my mortgage and I have engaged PK, however the EBS still claims I am not impacted. If the person who was redressed in the text above could send a private message I'm would be very grateful as their case sounds very similar to my own.
EBS seemed to have consistently made the same mistake with many variable base customers i.e. indicating that the variable base was a tracker or at the very least being ambiguous about the type of variable rate underlying fixed rate mortgages. These cases really should be brought to the FSPO.
 

whyindeed

Registered User
Messages
14
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
 

demoivre

Frequent Poster
Messages
2,605
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
Unless something has changed the FSPO won't look at your complaint until you have received a final response letter from your lender ie you have to have exhausted all avenues with your lender first. The FSPO state on their website that when submitting your complaint to them :

" It is vital that you submit the referral letter from the Provider stating that its internal procedure has been exhausted and the complaint cannot be resolved. "
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
208
I submitted my case to the FSPO in the last few days. My case is very similar to tonymac's partner, only we took out our mortgage in 2004 and fixed for 1 year before rolling over to the infamous ' variable base rate'. We receive the usual letter every month from EBS stating they are continuing to investigate our case but advising that a complaint can also be submitted to FSPO accompanying the monthly letter. I've now taken them up on this and await further developments!
Best of luck whyindeed, do keep us posted wont you like i did when i went to PKiss with my partners. I havent given up on an FSPO case yet but was very disappointed with the response i got. Hopefully you have sent in that final response letter with youre application as it is crucial but im sure from seeing youre posts youll have done that.
 

whyindeed

Registered User
Messages
14
I saw that requirement posted on the FSPO website, however, the letter I received from the EBS stating they are still looking into my case also invites me to submit my case to FSPO with a copy of the letter from the EBS. I await a reply from the FSPO so I don't really know what the story is. I'll keep ye posted!
 
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MySunshine

Registered User
Messages
3
Received a letter from EBS today to say that now they have completed their review of customer mortgage accounts with regard to Tracker Rates and their position in relation to my complaint remains unchanged. No surprise there. How long before ombudsman will react now I wonder?! I submitted complaint to him in February...
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
259
Is there any chance our situation will be addressed in the next few months ?
Yes. It was referenced in the Oireachtas meeting (I think McGrath mentioned it?). Decisions likely to be made by the FSPO in coming weeks I’d say.
 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
259
Not sure if this has been posted before. It’s a definition of a “base rate” by IG who are a large online trading & investment company.

 

Themurph

Registered User
Messages
10
We will just have to wait until ger deering gives his options on what is so obviously an ambiguous contract flaw at the least , if it goes against us I just want to hear someone explain to me what is the definition of a VARIABLE BASE RATE. simple.
 

Metatron

Registered User
Messages
41
Hi all, relatively new to this site, but find it quite good and informative. Under the unfair terms directive contract terms are to be drafted in plain intelligible language and ambiguities are to be interpreted in favour of consumers. The EU Commission has recently published guidance on such matters. I hope someone has brought this guidance to the attention of Mr Deering of the FSPO before he makes a decision on the “variable base rate” cohort.

See link below.

 

B26354

Frequent Poster
Messages
259
We will just have to wait until ger deering gives his options on what is so obviously an ambiguous contract flaw at the least , if it goes against us I just want to hear someone explain to me what is the definition of a VARIABLE BASE RATE. simple.
EBS will provide a retrospective definition of the variable base rate i.e. it’s an SVR. But I do wonder what the FSPO will think if EBS admit there was no definition in the original mortgage documentation that customers signed.
 

tonymac

Frequent Poster
Messages
208
EBS will provide a retrospective definition of the variable base rate i.e. it’s an SVR. But I do wonder what the FSPO will think if EBS admit there was no definition in the original mortgage documentation that customers signed.
Hi B26354, i do hope that Mr Deering realises that there was no definition as i find it hard to believe that EBS will just admit, rather that theyll somehow be forced to. Agree totally with you that theyll say its an SVR even though weve said numerous times on this site that the letters SVR never appear in this type of mortgage contract and now magically overnight they just decided that they are SVRs.
 
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