EBS What does an EBS "Variable Base Rate" mortgage mean?
- Thread starter tonymac
- Start date
Hi all, just to let ye know i have just got a reply from Michael McGrath in which he says he wants EBS to come in to the committee seperately to be questioned on our issue among others as he feels it would be the best way to get the answers we need which i personally would agree with. He also mentioned that there is some unwillingness on AIBs part for that to happen.
Paul Murphy same question same answer shame wasted opportunity, great questions Pierce n Micheal asked, tonymac you're right get in EBS and ask once and for all about VBR cohort ,I did like the AIB ceo and maybe he will take it on board , won't hold my breath , if there is movement there on prevailing rate we have a good chance keep the faith
Brendan has asked on the prevailing rate issue if anyone is available to attend the AIB AGM on wednesday 24th next to question them about their issue. Unfortunately i am unable to attend myself but would there be anyone available to attend this to question them on our VBR issue, EBS is part of AIB so our issue is for them too unless EBS have a seperate AGM, Brendan can advise if thats the case. Its on in the Ballsbridge hotel at 11am and he mentioned you should be out at 12.30.
If its of any good to this discussion, I have looked at the mortgage rate column from the Irish Times property supplement from 2006-2008. (online archive) What is very striking is that the EBS published standard tracker rate was identical to the EBS published standard variable rate and both rose / fell in tandem with ECB moves. They had slightly lower tracker rates for 80% or less ltv.
Every other institution has a slight difference - sometimes 0.05% difference, but still identifiable.
My own guess is that someone in ebs saw this too and thought that as there was no mention of tracker, we'll call this the SVR.
As I said in the AIB thread - a proper trawl through newspaper archives could give a lot of answers especially if you pay attention to all the adverts and any commentary from directors to reporters.
Every other institution has a slight difference - sometimes 0.05% difference, but still identifiable.
My own guess is that someone in ebs saw this too and thought that as there was no mention of tracker, we'll call this the SVR.
As I said in the AIB thread - a proper trawl through newspaper archives could give a lot of answers especially if you pay attention to all the adverts and any commentary from directors to reporters.
This has been done extensively in this thread; comments from directors to media & at subsequent Oireachtas committees leads one to an unequivocal conclusion; the variable basis for the fixed rate variable base loans was tracker.
I don't think anyone has done a proper trawl through newspaper archives from 2005-2008.
And I may not have positive news for EBS customers.
A search for EBS Mortgage in Irish Time archives from 2005-2008 show plenty of articles and plenty of adverts and all with one common theme.
EBS offered the lowest "Standard Variable Rate" in the market. This was their selling point on most adverts including switcher adverts.
Not one advert mentioned tracker and just one mentioned fixed rates - they had the Lowest "Standard Variable Rate" in the market and they made sure everyone knew it.
It would be good to read the small print of the advert promoting fixed rates (ebs2) and see what the asterix denotes. (you need to buy a high res image)
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Hi peemac, thats good information to have as it brings home to us the difficulty we face in getting redress as a court or the FSO could determine that VBR mortgages were something different and could side with EBS which appears to be what is happening here with regard to the CB. FSO doesnt appear to have issued anything either for or against us(open to contradiction) and the EBS say they werent trackers even though the evidence in my partners contract is quite clearly showing they did track ECB at +1.25%. Furthermore her contract had VBR as the interest rate basis after an initial 3 year fixed period which she was basically forced on to as a condition of getting the mortgage and thirdly there is no sign of the wording Standard variable rate on her contract.
Finally while on i am still waiting on PK to come back to me with his opinions on what i sent in to him but it was said at the time i sent it it could take a number of weeks for him to get to assessing it so will awit with fingers crossed.
Finally while on i am still waiting on PK to come back to me with his opinions on what i sent in to him but it was said at the time i sent it it could take a number of weeks for him to get to assessing it so will awit with fingers crossed.
If they were so keen on selling SVR’s at the time why do policy documents indicate that they want 60% of their mortgage book to be tracker by 2008?
In Oireachtas committee meetings in 2015 EBS non executive director Eithne Tinney confirmed that 60% of their loan book was tracker by 2008 and they had only moved to push SVR’s after this to reduce costs of trackers.
Multiple media releases by EBS management during 2004-2008 confirmed they were pushing trackers heavily; in early 2008 EBS membership manager Dara Deering actually stated to Charlie Weston that other banks were ripping off customers with SVR’s unlike EBS who were pushing trackers. Problem is that these trackers magically changed into SVR’s in mid 2008 as most customers with the variable base rate/tracker were still in their fixed rate. All of this evidence and more is in this thread.
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Be very careful of how you read journalist's reports.
I can't see where the last part of your statement is "who were pushing trackers."
I read a similar article in the Irish Times (can't locate it at present) and it was about the EBS offering the lowest standard variable rates in the market and how their svr did not penalise customers unlike other banks who were ripping customers off.
So just be careful looking to make something suit your argument.
I did the same in my ombudsman case against kbc in 2011 saying "homeloan variable rate" was a tracker because that was the only rate available. - It was shot down in an instant with articles, adverts and rate sheets that had standard variable rate in each and every document.
There are also articles going back to 2006 stating that 1st time buyer 1year and 2 year fixed rates are not great because you then go onto the lenders standard variable rate instead of a tracker - this part of the article was in relation to ptsb & boi.
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Hi Peemac
thanks for the advice - its true you can start seeing what you want to see sometimes in these situations and but however about the media, adverts etc side of things - I wonder most though about the actual VBR contracts from ebs and how poor they were ( i would love to see one that they give out today to compare) .
I don't know how you sell a product and don't define what the product is in the contract.
How you refer in the contract to terms and conditions - that are not inculded in the contract and that no one can furnish you with them nor tell you what they are.
its sounds fantastical and totally unbleliveable ..but it is the reality of these ebs mortgage contracts - they are simply a joke - but the repercussions for ebs so far is 0 ( where is the financial regulator you would wonder)
There are so many issues with my contract I have gone back to them now 8 times - after they deemed me not impacted - thats 8 issues with the contract and the type of answers I am getting is - that was a mistake ? seriously thats their answer to me - thats was a mistake - ok so one mistake fair enough - but 8 issues and really - can the ebs really have the nerve to say ... sorry it was all a few big mistakes ??? see they just continue to brazen it out .... also did the md/ceo remove the appology fom the ebs website - thats a little premature if he did
also the ebs employee who i enagaged with for my massive mess of a mortgage mess - he is now a branch manager and a 'mortgage master' - ( adain where is the financial regulator you would wonder)
thanks for the advice - its true you can start seeing what you want to see sometimes in these situations and but however about the media, adverts etc side of things - I wonder most though about the actual VBR contracts from ebs and how poor they were ( i would love to see one that they give out today to compare) .
I don't know how you sell a product and don't define what the product is in the contract.
How you refer in the contract to terms and conditions - that are not inculded in the contract and that no one can furnish you with them nor tell you what they are.
its sounds fantastical and totally unbleliveable ..but it is the reality of these ebs mortgage contracts - they are simply a joke - but the repercussions for ebs so far is 0 ( where is the financial regulator you would wonder)
There are so many issues with my contract I have gone back to them now 8 times - after they deemed me not impacted - thats 8 issues with the contract and the type of answers I am getting is - that was a mistake ? seriously thats their answer to me - thats was a mistake - ok so one mistake fair enough - but 8 issues and really - can the ebs really have the nerve to say ... sorry it was all a few big mistakes ??? see they just continue to brazen it out .... also did the md/ceo remove the appology fom the ebs website - thats a little premature if he did
also the ebs employee who i enagaged with for my massive mess of a mortgage mess - he is now a branch manager and a 'mortgage master' - ( adain where is the financial regulator you would wonder)