Was the N7 third lane the biggest waste of money ever?

[Leo]

Which is what my post is about. Change and be consistent, for a change. Educate to and judge against the same standard and avoid confusion.

In respect to overtaking on the left, where do you think the RSA are saying that's OK?

We suffer the costs of judges, courts and lawyers because the road traffic laws, and legislation generally are complex; change the horrendously expensive and confusing model where the road traffic laws are concerned.

They're not at all that complex really, just most people don't bother reading it. What model would you propose in place of the current legislation and judicial system?

 

[joer]

I wouldn't call it overtaking on the left ..all you are doing is passing by the driver on the right .....for not keeping up with the speed limit....

 

[mathepac]

What model would you propose in place of the current legislation and judicial system?

Read my post - I've spelled out what to replace the judicial system with, I haven't proposed any changes to legislation.

They're not at all that complex really, just most people don't bother reading it.

I accept that but learner drivers are not tested on their knowledge of the legislation, as I've already said.

In respect to overtaking on the left, where do you think the RSA are saying that's OK?

Read page 57 in the current Rules of the Road. Hold on, wait don't bother, I'll do it all for you

"You may overtake on the left when:

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly but traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the right-hand lane – for example, in slow-moving stop-start traffic."

 

[mathepac]

I wouldn't call it overtaking on the left

See quotation from Rules of the Road in my post above.

 

[joer]

Ok so that's what the rule book says but people do have their own interpretation of the wording . If everyone obeyed the rules of the road , whatever way they read it, there would be no need to have this discussion at all..
Wouldn't that be good for everyone

 

[Howth Head]

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly but traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the right-hand lane – for example, in slow-moving stop-start traffic."

Yes, and this covers most of the time on the M50 and the N11 where I do most of my weekly driving in busy traffic. (For sanity and safety reasons, I'll continue to differentiate between "overtaking" the car in front of me by moving out to the right lane and back again - and merely driving forward in the left lane well within the speed limits without hitting the brakes every minute to avoid going slightly faster than those crowding the outer lanes.)

 

[Firefly]

I drove to Dublin last weekend. Really enjoyed listening to Lyric FM in the (empty) slow lane - people are missing a trick!

 

[Salvadore]

I wouldn't call it overtaking on the left ..all you are doing is passing by the driver on the right .....for not keeping up with the speed limit...

You can call it what you like. It’s not allowed and you can get done for it.

The example given in the rules of the road of where it’s permissible to pass on the left refer to stop-start scenarios. This doesn’t mean all instances of merely driving within the speed limit. Drivers aren’t required to “keep up with the speed limit”. It’s a limit, not a target after all.

People can justify it in their own heads as much as they want but they should at least be aware that they may get done for it.

 

[Leo]

I wouldn't call it overtaking on the left ..all you are doing is passing by the driver on the right .....for not keeping up with the speed limit....

You might not, but the law does not make any distinction. Perhaps read the earlier posts. Oh, and a speed limit is a limit, not keeping up with it is not an offence.

 

[Leo]

Read my post - I've spelled out what to replace the judicial system with, I haven't proposed any changes to legislation.

I read it but it seems to suggest chaos. You seemed to think that those performing the role of judge should be able to do so without any understanding of the law. That's right out of the Trump playbook

You need to remember there is more to driving than simply obeying the letter of the law, the RSA's role in education and testing acknowledges that.

Read page 57 in the current Rules of the Road. Hold on, wait don't bother, I'll do it all for you

And what is the conflict with legislation there?

 

[joer]

I know it's not allowed to ,pass, overtake or pass by. And I am well aware of the rules of the road and I'm also well aware of what the speed limit means.....but apparently there are quite a lot of drivers are not or don't bother because that are never stopped....it seems.
I am driving since 1974 and have never been breathalysed......just saying.
By the way I don't drink and drive.......

 

[Leo]

I know it's not allowed to ,pass, overtake or pass by. And I am well aware of the rules of the road

So when you said:

I wouldn't call it overtaking on the left

You were aware the legislation does call it overtaking?

 

[mathepac]

You seemed to think that those performing the role of judge should be able to do so without any understanding of the law.

No I didn't. read it again

 

[mathepac]

You can call it what you like. It’s not allowed and you can get done for it.

It is allowed as is the how and when on page 57 of the Rules of the Road as I have already pointed out. Just for clarity:

Read page 57 in the current Rules of the Road. Hold on, wait don't bother, I'll do it all for you

"You may overtake on the left when:

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly but traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the right-hand lane – for example, in slow-moving stop-start traffic."

That's what we expect learner drivers to know before they get a licence. Back to school maybe?

 

[Salvadore]

You may overtake on the left when:

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly but traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the right-hand lane – for example, in slow-moving stop-start traffic."

None of those scenarios relate to circumstances in which a vehicle in the leftmost lane may overtake a vehicle in a lane to the right when it’s traveling at a constant speed, even when that speed is within the prescribed limit.

That's what we expect learner drivers to know before they get a licence. Back to school maybe?

Perhaps you should, even if it’s only to have it drawn on a chalkboard.

 

[Leo]

No I didn't. read it again

You suggested:

Dispense with need for lawyers and judges to study road-traffic legislation

So, your proposals did include the suggestion that judges would have no need to study the law.

It is allowed as is the how and when on page 57 of the Rules of the Road as I have already pointed out.

You still haven't pointed out what you feel is confusing there versus what's in the legislation? Regardless, it should be clear that none of those exceptions applies to the subject of this thread.

 

[joer]

Ah Leo. Now if everything had to be quoted by the book...

I called it passing by .....ok it's called overtaking
It boils down to the same thing with different wording.....not according to the rule book , I know.

 

[mathepac]

So, your proposals did include the suggestion that judges would have no need to study the law.

Stop the selective misleading quoting.

• Test learner drivers only on their knowledge of the legislation as enacted
• Dispense with need for lawyers and judges to study road-traffic legislation
• Try all alleged road-traffic infringements in courts with volunteer drivers as judges, jurors, prosecutors, and defendant advocates
• Simplify, save millions, and avoid confusion.

This is the context, but then you knew that, you just chose to ignore it. No surprise there.

 

[Leo]

• Dispense with need for lawyers and judges to study road-traffic legislation
• Try all alleged road-traffic infringements in courts with volunteer drivers as judges, jurors, prosecutors, and defendant advocates

You know that additional line you chose to bold just emphasises my point - these volunteer drivers acting as judges would hardly be experts in the law they were expected to judge based on, would they? How could you possible expect such a process to ensure fair and consistent process for all?

 

[mathepac]

Test learner drivers only on their knowledge of the legislation as enacted

Instead of studying the Rules of the Road, learner drivers study the legislation as enacted. and get tested on it. I've already said that

Educate to and judge against the same standard and avoid confusion.

But of course you chose to ignore that.