Volkswagen Beetle/MX5/Toyota Celica etc.

Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Gabriel said:
I'd agree with that if it were true about the basic Golf (if you're lumping that in with desirable cars)...but it's not.
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The Golf is a desirable car (not by me btw). That's why they sell at a premium and have the lowest depreciation. I agree with the other posters - they are boring and you need to spend a fortune to get one that performs well.

Same for the Polo...we had an old 97 one that used to drive me crazy...no power steering...put it on the paper and the phone was hopping.

F.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Gabriel said:
Well no they're not you're right. So I suppose we're on slightly different platforms here. I'll give you that you're standard VW has better more durable materials...
But they're incredibly boring. At least an Alfa looks the part...even if all the buttons will break when you press them too hard ;)
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Well VW is a bit staid maybe. I think the passat is ok.


Alfa 159 is ok not amazing or anything.


Gabriel said:
I wouldn't rate the Primera as a good drive either but they've sold very well...they're everywhere for god sake!!! Can't walk down the road for fear of tripping over one!
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I dunno I see far more of the old one than the new one. Don't even see that many taxi's driving them. TBH I see more Maximas as taxi's than the current Primera. Theres Golfs everywhere though.

Gabriel said:
I'd agree with that if it were true about the basic Golf (if you're lumping that in with desirable cars)...but it's not.
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Desirable based on its sales figures.

Incidentally anyone know where you can get a breakdown of Irish sales figures for different cars? Rather than just specific segments? I could find one when I was googling. I could get european but the Irish market is different. Overall in Europe they are thinking of dropping the Primera its sold so poorly. Sells better in Ireland though.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

aircobra19 said:
Desirable based on its sales figures.
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Okay...I see your point alright. But "desirable" is a strong word. If we're basing desirability on sales figures the Toyota Corrolla must be the most desired car out there :)
I think people buy Golf's because they believe they're getting more than they actually are. The Golf has an image that it just doesn't live up to. I suppose that's what bugs me. It's not a bad car. It's an okay car...but very overrated and very overpriced.
In saying that I like the new shape...think they look quite good. And the GTI is a savage little motor.

The Alfa 159 is a great looking car and as good if not better to drive than the 156. It also has oodles of charisma...something a lot of Germanic cars lack. But as usual I'm sure the electrics are pants. If Alfa ever start building reliable cars I'll be first in line to buy one.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

2 years on and my 2002 147 and hasn't missed a beat. The 156 ruined their reputation.

My next car will almost certainly be a GT or 159.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Gabriel said:
....It's not a bad car. It's an okay car...but very overrated and very overpriced. ....
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Hard to get a decent comparision as some brand the 3dr is more expensive than the 5dr. But consider the approx base model of the following...

New Alfa 147 €23,295
New 1.6 Golf €22,380

New 1.4 Golf €20,535
New 1.4 Focus €19,515
New 1.4 Astra €20,420


 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

aircobra19 said:
Hard to get a decent comparision as some brand the 3dr is more expensive than the 5dr. But consider the approx base model of the following...

New Alfa 147 €23,295
New 1.6 Golf €22,380

New 1.4 Golf €20,535
New 1.4 Focus €19,515
New 1.4 Astra €20,420
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Hardly evidence of Golfs being overpriced.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

The 'base' Alfas almost certainly have a higher spec then the likes of Golfs or Astras, e.g. alloys, climate control, steering controls. Aside from that, there is no 1.4 Alfa 147-1.6 is the standard.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

CCOVICH said:
The 'base' Alfas almost certainly have a higher spec then the likes of Golfs or Astras, e.g. alloys, climate control, steering controls. Aside from that, there is no 1.4 Alfa 147-1.6 is the standard.
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Indeed as would a base Punto or Stilo be better equipped. Value isn't dependent on the amount of kit though its it. Depreciation is a factor too.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

aircobra19 said:
Indeed as would a base Punto or Stilo be better equipped. Value isn't dependent on the amount of kit though its it. Depreciation is a factor too.
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Yep - I agree.

But I think it's easy to miss the point being made.

Actually, as an aside, the Punto is a nice little car - but very unreliable.
Stilo is just crap fullstop.

But the point I'm making about the Golf is that it's over marketed. Perception is everything for the Golf. The Focus is a superior car yet probably still plays second fiddle to it's German neighbour.
And the Golf has a snob factor as well...something I've never understood!!
Only on looks perhaps does the Golf win.

People buy Alfas because they're beautiful and nice to drive. If you buy an Alfa for depreciation reasons you need your head tested.
I'd buy a Brera if I could afford it and it's not even that fast for 60k :( But it's a seriously sexy looking beast of a car!

[broken link removed]
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

CCOVICH said:
2 years on and my 2002 147 and hasn't missed a beat. The 156 ruined their reputation.

My next car will almost certainly be a GT or 159.
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In fairness...the 147 doesn't get glowing reviews in the reliability stakes either.

http://www.whatcar.co.uk/news-special-report.aspx?NA=217350&EL=3142807

156 fairs better than it's younger brother according to WhatCar!

I do like the 159...not sure about the looks of the GT and I've read reviews which say it's not all that to drive either.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Gabriel said:
...the Golf is that it's over marketed. Perception is everything for the Golf. The Focus is a superior car yet probably still plays second fiddle to it's German neighbour.....
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Funny you should say that....

[broken link removed]

FAMILY HATCHBACKS
TOP SELLERS IN 2006
1. Ford Focus
2. Toyota Corolla
3. VW Golf
4. Opel Astra
5. Nissan Almera


It's the biggest market segment in Ireland with over 57,000 new cars registered this year, representing over 32 per cent of the entire new car market in Ireland.
The eternal battle for top spot between Ford and Toyota continues apace and the models are likely to swap positions with the introduction of a Corolla replacement next year.
Of the rest, the Honda Civic has done well despite a poor selection of engines for the Irish market. The recent introduction of a saloon model should further boost sales though it's unlikely to challenge the top five models, even with the Irish Car of the Year title under its belt.
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Had a diesel focus on holidays recently, it was ok but nothing special.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Can't understand why Opel didn't make a saloon Astra they seemed to have sold in big numbers here
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

aircobra19 said:
Value isn't dependent on the amount of kit though its it. Depreciation is a factor too.
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It is not the sole factor-but I consider climate control and alloys to be a must have. Depreciation is a big issue on new cars that have a poor rep, but it works in your favour when buying used.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

Firefly said:
Can't understand why Opel didn't make a saloon Astra they seemed to have sold in big numbers here
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In all other markets the mid size saloon is selling poorly. Everyone wants a hatch back. Apparently.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

1234 said:
This is another Urban Legend like the VW reliability one. I looked at the Euro NCAP ratings for Small Family Cars, Roadsters and 4x4’s. There are 47 models of small family cars rated with an average of 3.7 stars, 7 models of roadsters with an average of 4 stars and 28 models of 4x4’s with an average of 3.7 stars. These results do not prove that if you are driving a 4x4 that you have any more chance to survive an accident that driving a small family car.
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I never said SUV. I just said larger and heavier. Could be a larger exec saloon or a bus for example. Simply larger mass at the same velocity does more damage, than a smaller mass at the same velocity. Or put another way.

AFAIK most of the safety tests use a constant mass against each vehicle or the vehicles own mass against itself in against stationary objects. Which is a ok baseline comparision. Especially for single vehicle accidents. They really only show what happens if a mini hits a mini, or a Bus hits a Bus. Not when a Bus hits a Mini. Big difference.

1234 said:
I will admit that you probably have a better chance of survival if you hit a supermini in a 4x4.....
.....
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Er, thats what I said.
 
Re: Volkswagen Beetle.

1234 said:
It’s not about whether you can afford to fill the tank. It’s about value for money.
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A car is a luxury for most people. What do you mean?

1234 said:
It’s misleading to think that size doesn’t have any bearing on CO2 emissions. .....
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Maybe your right. I was kinda thinking its more to do with the engine design with new engines having lower CO2 emissions. Quite often new vehicles have old tech engines. So you have to look at the specific engines.

Engine size does not corrolate with CO2 emissions in this list
http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/top_ten_article.aspx?cp-documentid=475361
 
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