Bank of Ireland Tracker taken- Staff at the time.

Sarenco

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No it isn't always relevant, your translation of above is exactly what I was explaining in an earlier post. Where someone started on a tracker ro a fixed option with the tracker specified as the roll on rate then they should always go back to the start. But if someone started on a bog standard variable for example and later chose a tracker when it was offered and then subsequently again fixed then they would not automatically have a right to go back a step to the tracker unless they were still being offered on maturity of fixed. They would go back to the starting type of rate on the loan offer.
But isn't that simply because that's what the contract provides will happen?

I understand that's what Ulster Bank's contract provides but was that the case with the contractual terms employed by any other mortgage lender at that time?
 
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rodger

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okay here's an aib agreement

The loan was the originally tracker.

In the small print of the letter of offer it says at the end of the fixed period I can either revert to (tracker) variable or fix again
 

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Sarenco

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Thanks Rodger but it doesn't actually say anything about what rate you will default to if you choose to fix your rate at any point during the term of the loan.

Do you have your offer letter for the 5 year fixed rate loan (as opposed to the tracker loan)? The key point is what rate you will default to on the expiry of the fixed term - not whether you can fix in the first place.
 
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rodger

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I'll have to dig it out.

This one I have to have

The terms and conditions for this one say at end of the fixed rate it will be a choice of tracker variable or another fix.

I mean how can that be interpreted to lose three tracker?
 

Sarenco

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The terms and conditions for this one say at end of the fixed rate it will be a choice of tracker variable or another fix.
But the letter you've posted doesn't actually say anything about the rate you will default to at the end of your fixed term - it simply says that you can fix your rate whenever you want.

If your fixed rate loan offer says you can revert to a tracker at the end of the fixed term, well, then you're in business!
 
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rodger

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There was no fixed rate documentation.

There was an option in the original offer letter to fix for a fee of €63. I availed of this by a written letter.

The original terms are what apply. Those original terms offer the option of a tracker with an option to fix.

At the end of the fixed rate period it says I can choose to return to tracker variable or fix again. Two options.

No need for any change to the original contract.
 

Sarenco

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At the end of the fixed rate period it says I can choose to return to tracker variable or fix again.
Sorry Rodger, but where exactly does it say that?

I can't see anything to that effect on the document you've posted.
 

Sarenco

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Just so I'm clear, are you giving your interpretation as to what is meant by the original letter regarding the rate you would default to at the end of the fixed term period in the absence of any express provision in this regard?

In other words, are you describing what you think the letter means as opposed to what it actually says or is there some text missing from what you've posted?

Are you absolutely sure you received no documentation at all when you opted to fix? That seems very unusual.
 
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rodger

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There were conditions that were sent out after I fixed to confirm that I had fixed and what would happen if I wanted to break out of the fixed rate.

I can send those. I don't think it mentions what happens after the full term of the fixed period.

There must be other Aib customers who can confirm, who were affected same way.

Where are these people?
Maybe they already got the tracker back?
 

Sarenco

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There were conditions that were sent out after I fixed to confirm that I had fixed and what would happen if I wanted to break out of the fixed rate.

I can send those. I don't think it mentions what happens after the full term of the fixed period.
Hi Rodger

On a previous thread, you posted the attached conditions from your loan offer:



I appreciate that you feel strongly that you should be entitled to default back to your original tracker rate. Unfortunately, your documentation clearly says that you will default to a variable rate loan - not a tracker.

This appears to contrast with PTSB fixed term contracts from that time, which invariably provided that borrowers were entitled to default to a tracker on the expiry of their fixed term and Ulster Bank fixed term contracts, which provided that borrowers would default to whatever rate was provided for in their original loan offer.

Unless you have some other documentation that suggests that you are entitled to default back to your tracker rate, I really don't see that you have any cause for complaint.
 
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todo

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Unfortunately, your documentation clearly says that you will default to a variable rate loan - not a tracker.
Not necessarily it depends on what the banks definition of "variable interest Mortgage loan" is, and unless their is a clear definition of the term in the contract, that term could be used to describe a tracker.

For example the BOI contract never mentions the word tracker.
 
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Sarenco

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Not necessarily it depends on what the banks definition of "variable interest Mortgage loan" is, and unless their is a clear definition of the term in the contract, that term could be used to describe a tracker.

For example the BOI contract never mentions the word tracker.
To be honest, I don't think there is any reality to that argument but it would be great if you could post the relevant provisions from the BOI loan offer for comparison.

I did a bit more digging and discovered that Clause 3.2 of the conditions to at least some loan offers issued by AIB in 2007 was worded as follows:

"At the end of any fixed interest period, the Customer may choose between:
(a) a further fixed interest period, or
(b) conversion to a variable interest rate Mortgage Loan
(c) conversion to a tracker interest rate Mortgage Loan
at the bank's then prevailing rates appropriate to the Mortgage Loan. If the customer does not exercise this choice, then the Mortgage Loan will automatically convert to the variable interest rate Mortgage Loan."

If Clause 3.2 of Rodger's loan offer contained that wording then I think he would have a very strong argument that he should be entitled to default back to a tracker and possibly even the tracker rate as per his original loan offer. However, the precise wording of his particular loan offer is critical in this regard.

In absence of wording along these lines, I think Rodger will have to hope that the Central Bank decides a failure on the part of AIB to specifically point out that he would lose his tracker by fixing was a breach of the Consumer Protection Code and orders AIB to restore trackers to all borrowers in similar circumstances. That is certainly a possibility but I'm not sure how much confidence borrowers should place in this process. Brendan and Padraig Kissane are obviously closer to the Central Bank's current review and may be in a position to offer a more meaningful comment.
 
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rodger

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Actually it is very clear cut

Because the tracker I started out on is a variable rate loan!

Thankfully no confusion there.

So if I started out on tracker then to tracker I shall return.
 

Sarenco

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Actually it is very clear cut

Because the tracker I started out on is a variable rate loan!

Thankfully no confusion there.

So if I started out on tracker then to tracker I shall return.
Have you made a complaint to the FSO?

I don't think any of the extracts from the documentation that you've posted so far supports your position but perhaps the FSO will take a different view.
 
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rodger

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I would like to know what is your particular interest in this case?
 

Sarenco

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I have absolutely zero personal interest in your case!

Look, if you don't want to tell us whether you have filed a complaint with the FSO that's obviously fine.
 
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rodger

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I just asked what is your interest?
Do you not want to tell?
 
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rodger

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Not the question I asked

It's obvious why I'm on this forum.
I'm an aggrieved customer who has been wronged.

Why are you so interested? You have hundreds of posts on there subject of tracker mortgages. But what do you care?
 
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