Bank of Ireland Tracker taken- Staff at the time.

Sarenco

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Rebuttal,

If the term is as you state it is, then of course the regulations under the Consumer Protection Code have been incorporated into the contract through the term, excuse the pun, but there can be no rebuttal of this fact.
Completely disagree but I do not want to bring this thread off topic yet again. If you want to discuss this point can you please start a new thread?
 

Sarenco

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Fascinating stuff from the bank insiders. I have a personal, but related question - was there a policy in mid 2008 (but before October 2008 when trackers became unavailable) not to give trackers if they could? I was approved for a mortgage by the BOI sometime in May 2008 and was told I chould choose between fixed and trackers. In July when I signed the mortgage papers the bank said I could only choose between SVR and fixed; tracker was no longer available. I never had a tracker in my contract so I have no case but I am really really curious now as I always thought I was unlucky in terms of timing but now it turns out the BOI pulled trackers in October 2008 only. I did not know, I thought it was earlier. And my LTV was below 80% then. I wonder if the bank officers were instructed to pull tracker offers in July 2008? Would anybody know anything about it?
My understanding is that all the major banks stopped offering trackers as early as July 2008.
 
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Asphyxia

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Maybe MAX1 and Onceagain should contact each other in conversation mode, both appear to have been subject to the same shenanigans by BOI
 

Sarenco

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Maybe they should but if MAX01 is willing to give us some more detail on his/her particular case I'm sure that would be of interest to a wider audience.
 

Monbretia

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Can only speak for where I worked but remember very clearly when trackers finished being offered on applications. July 2008 I was off sick for 4 weeks, before I left trackers were there when I came back they were gone for new loan application other than loan offers already issued or in the pipeline. Those customers were given some time to draw them down, couldn't say exactly how much but feel it was until around the end of September that year. It was a hectic few months trying to get as many drawn down as possible.

That sort of space for existing offers to draw down could explain why even though trackers ceased to be offered they were still being issues to cases in the pipeline for several months until the pipeline was cleared and then they were totally finished.
 
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Rebuttal

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Maybe they should but if MAX01 is willing to give us some more detail on his/her particular case I'm sure that would be of interest to a wider audience.
Your right Sarenco, particularly if that wider audience includes the bank in question, but I understand, it would be useful to have more detail.
 
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visigoth

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Monbretia, Sarenco - thanks, guys. If Oct 2008 announcement was indeed in relation to those in the pipeline while they killed new trackers in July it would have explained it. Very sad, probably means I missed their internal deadlines by a week or so then. Never thought it would be such a big deal. Even if I had tracker myself, I still think the fight to get the trackers back obscures the bigger picture that SVR/fixed rates are bizarrely high. If the tracker premium over SVR were one percent or so, the trackers would not be seen as "valuable" as they are when the premium is around 3%, people would not have been so pissed about it.

But I second the sentiment that this case is of interest to a larger audience. If I recall correctly, the BOI kept reducing its SVR rates alongside its trackers until 2010 or so, and then something happened and people were not placed back on trackers, and SVR became arbitrary. Surprising that the BOI did it not only to its regular customers but also to its own staffers.
 
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Rebuttal

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BOI are certainly in the line of fire of the latest CBI review and remember that customer and staff loyalty is a concept that banks only know how to spell.
 

Sarenco

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BOI are certainly in the line of fire of the latest CBI review and remember that customer and staff loyalty is a concept that banks only know how to spell.
Can you lay off the anti-bank tirades and just let others report their experiences? Please??
 
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Rebuttal

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All my comments on this thread are relatively short as compared to your loquasious posts, not a tirade in any way, as you assert. So please, please, no more replies to my posts, let others get on with it.
 
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rodger

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Just to understand the MAX01 story

You won your case with the fsob

The BOI took a case to the high court?

The case didn't proceed?

The fsob announced a review

The case was reviewed

The fsob did a complete U turn one and half years later?

What does it all mean?

Cronyism? Back handers? Political interference?
 

MAX01

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That is correct
The FSO pulled the case from the High Court and reviewed it again. A year and a half later, they found in favour of the bank, but awarded me 1k which is approx the extra money I have to pay every month on a variable rate of 5.6% (my loans are Buy to Let)
 

Sarenco

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Sorry MAX01 but I'm still confused.

The FSO originally ruled in your favour - right? Did they order that you should revert to a tracker rate?

The bank appealed to the High Court and the FSO agreed to reconsider your case - right?

Why did the FSO award you €1,000 if they found in favour of the bank? Did they partly find in your favour and partly in favour of the bank? Did the FSO explain why they changed their original ruling?

You were originally on a tracker and then fixed for a period. Did your contract specify what rate would apply on the expiry of the fixed term?

Sorry for all the questions - your story sounds very interesting but I just want to make sure I understand all the relevant facts.
 
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rodger

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What I find disturbing is how fickle the ombudsman is.

For someone who loses their fsob case they are unlikely to bring a high court case. But banks can easily afford to.

So it's a bit like the PTSB case at least at the start? The difference is the ending!

Given that the fsob ruled in your favour once and that should be legally binding can you ask for another review?

Can you approach the CBI directly. They should have more power?

Can you take legal action against fsob?

Can you look to take an action against the BOI and ask similarly affected people to contribute? Wait for the current review by CBI and if not successful then legal action. Tell fsob your plans to take legal action.

By the way I'm similarly affected by BOI. Lost tracker in 2012 so I would join a legal action.
 

Sarenco

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What I find weird is the fact that somebody can ultimately lose a case and still get awarded compensation. How does that work?

Rodger - would you be willing to describe your own circumstances? How did you lose your tracker?
 
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rodger

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Switch to tracker in 2006
5 year fix in 2007
At end of the fixed period bank refused to return to tracker
 

Monbretia

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Was your mortgage a tracker day one or did you switch from an ordinary variable to a tracker, then to a fixed?
 

Sarenco

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Was your mortgage a tracker day one or did you switch from an ordinary variable to a tracker, then to a fixed?
I don't think that will always be relevant.

Another poster advised that Ulster Bank's loan offer at that time provided as follows:

AT THE END OF THE FIXED PERIOD: Ulster Bank Ireland Limited may offer to continue the advance for such a period and at such a fixed rate as it may decide. It may also offer alternative available products. If such offer is made and you elect to accept then you must do so in writing, your acceptance to be signed by all parties to the mortgage and to be received by Ulster Bank Ireland Limited. If of no such offer is made or if an offer is made and no acceptance received as prescribed above, then, from the day following the expiry of any option selected above, the Ulster Bank Home Loan Rate shall apply in accordance with General condition 2 of the Offer of Advance originally accepted by you being the Bank's General Conditions Relating to Advances by Ulster Bank Ireland Limited House Mortgages Section, which varies the Interest Rate, and the said General Conditions relating to the Advances shall be construed accordingly.

In other words, Ulster Bank's offer provided that at the end of the fixed term a borrower would default to whatever rate was provided for in their original loan offer, regardless of whether they subsequently switched to another rate. So if a loan started off life as a tracker, a borrower would default back to a tracker at the end of the fixed term.

However, that does not appear to have been the standard approach adopted by all lenders at that time. KBC's loan offers appear to have provided that borrowers would default to KBC's SVR at the end of the fixed term whereas PTSB's loan offers seem to have invariably provided that borrowers would default to a tracker rate (although the margin was not always specified).

I would be very interested to know what BOI's loan offer specified would happen at the end of the fixed period.
 

Monbretia

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No it isn't always relevant, your translation of above is exactly what I was explaining in an earlier post. Where someone started on a tracker ro a fixed option with the tracker specified as the roll on rate then they should always go back to the start. But if someone started on a bog standard variable for example and later chose a tracker when it was offered and then subsequently again fixed then they would not automatically have a right to go back a step to the tracker unless they were still being offered on maturity of fixed. They would go back to the starting type of rate on the loan offer.

That's why I was wondering whether rodger started on a tracker or not.
 
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