The screw is being turned on the DUP

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Early Riser said:
If the backstop is omitted from the Withdrawal Agreement the Irish border will simply become a British bargaining chip in the future trade relationships - "give us what we want or else". Don't forget that the the majority of the British electorate (and the Brexiters en masse) care not one jot about Ireland, north or south, unionist or nationalist.

This is the one and only chance to get a border guarantee.
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Agreed.

I think it will be politically impossible for any Irish government to erect any kind of infrastructure in the event of a no-deal.
 
Purple said:
Mainland = European mainland.

Britain is an island, just as Ireland is an island. Neither one is a mainland. Talking about "the mainland" in the context of Britain and Ireland is ridiculous.
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What on earth is " ridiculous" about it?

The DUP want to weaken the link with the EU, they want to preserve the link with the UK mainland.

The term " British mainland" is used frequently within many contexts.
 
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galway_blow_in said:
What on earth is " ridiculous" about it?

The DUP want to weaken the link with the EU, they want to preserve the link with the UK mainland.

The term " British mainland" is used frequently within many contexts.
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Britain is an island. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain so unless you are talking about somewhere like the Isle of Wight Britain is not a mainland. In a conversation about two islands off the coast of Europe the only mainland is the European mainland.
 
The DUP and BoJo are aligning on their media campaign of deflection and projection. They are now saying that it is the Irish Government in general, and Leo Varadkar in particular, who are being unreasonable and are causing the current crisis. It is an attempt to undermine the confidence and supply agreement between the Government and FF. Thankfully, and to his credit, Michael Martin has so far not put party ahead of country.
 
Itchy said:
I think it will be politically impossible for any Irish government to erect any kind of infrastructure in the event of a no-deal.
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Then we will have to choose between the politically impossible and the economically catastrophic. The EU are not going to allow Ireland to be a backdoor into the Single Market and Customs Union. Insofar as we don't have creditable (however imperfect) borders in the event of a hard brexit we will find ourselves becoming some sort of satellite of the EU rather than a fully integrated member. The EU is our biggest market.
 
Early Riser said:
The EU are not going to allow Ireland to be a backdoor into the Single Market and Customs Union.
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This is a particular concern around livestock. If the UK diverges from health and animal welfare standards then imports from UK will be considered a risk to our national herd.
 
Itchy said:
I think it will be politically impossible for any Irish government to erect any kind of infrastructure in the event of a no-deal.
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No choice really. Though they might be able to differentiate between people movement and produce - to some extent

Edit - there will be a difference. Free Travel Area. I had a senior moment
 
EmmDee said:
Free Travel Area.
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For Irish people. Not for non-Irish, of which there are some 500,000+ resident in Ireland according to the census. Estimate 40,000-50,000 living in border counties.
It will be impossible to police, but where will that leave non-Irish citizens who travel regularly north of the border either for work or personal reasons? Insurance, citizens rights etc,
 
A comment from The Journal today (not me):

Brits: We’re leaving the EU.
EU: Want the same trade terms?
Brits: No.
EU: You’ll need a border then.
Brits: No.
EU: Then you’ll need open borders with all WTO countries.
Brits: No.
EU: What about customs checks then?
Brits: They’re easy. Technology. Don’t need a border.
EU: How?
Brits: Trust us.
EU: Will it be in place by the time you leave?
Brits: No.
EU: Then you’ll need a border.
Brits: No.
EU: How about we keep the current agreement until you get your alternative in place?
Brits: No.
EU: Then you’ll need a border.
Brits: OMG WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME THIS IS SO UNFAIR I HATE YOU!
 
My money is on BoJo going for a GE and dumping the DUP shortly after (presuming he has his majority). It is risky but there is no other way he can square the circle. A No Deal despite his bluster will not get through parliament and the Courts will prevent him bypassing parliament. I am sure he would be quite happy with a border down the Irish Sea and I wouldn't think he wants the DUP tail wagging his English bulldog.

The Scots might be a different issue though!
 
Sadim said:
My money is on BoJo going for a GE and dumping the DUP shortly after (presuming he has his majority). It is risky but there is no other way he can square the circle. A No Deal despite his bluster will not get through parliament and the Courts will prevent him bypassing parliament. I am sure he would be quite happy with a border down the Irish Sea and I wouldn't think he wants the DUP tail wagging his English bulldog.

The Scots might be a different issue though!
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I agree. I have actual money on them not leaving in 2019.
 
WolfeTone said:
but where will that leave non-Irish citizens who travel regularly north of the border either for work or personal reasons? Insurance, citizens rights etc,
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Subject to the same regulations as applied to non-Irish in UK - not clear yet. But could be an issue
 
Purple said:
Britain is an island. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain so unless you are talking about somewhere like the Isle of Wight Britain is not a mainland. In a conversation about two islands off the coast of Europe the only mainland is the European mainland.
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Let's not be Pedantic.
 
WolfeTone said:
For Irish people. Not for non-Irish, of which there are some 500,000+ resident in Ireland according to the census. Estimate 40,000-50,000 living in border counties.
It will be impossible to police, but where will that leave non-Irish citizens who travel regularly north of the border either for work or personal reasons? Insurance, citizens rights etc,
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there are trivial few of those, non nationals in ireland that need to cross the border as part of their job, presumably they will be high skilled technicians who else does it realistically apply to. In any case most are european citizens so visa free travel across europe whether EU or non EU country is not an issue unless they want to work, if they are non european well their rights to travel or work in other european countries are dictated by those countries and not the EU so no change there.
 
joe sod said:
non nationals in ireland that need to cross the border as part of their job, presumably they will be high skilled technicians who else does it realistically apply to.
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I would imagine only a few hundred or less would be affected. Not exclusively high skilled however. Bus drivers, lorry drivers for instance.
Its not so much about waves of immigrants. My point is relating to one incidence involving, say a Polish lorry driver, delivering goods from RoI to NI and is involved in an accident and is injured. Will such a person have any rights in UK, are they insured?
Im sure an easy workaround can be found where it is a necessity for a worker to travel from one jurisdiction into another. Isnt that what the SM, CU and freedom of movement solve?
But the Brexiteers are adamant that free movement will end, with their Home Secretary stating only skilled English speakers welcome.
 
WolfeTone said:
I would imagine only a few hundred or less would be affected. Not exclusively high skilled however. Bus drivers, lorry drivers for instance.
Its not so much about waves of immigrants. My point is relating to one incidence involving, say a Polish lorry driver, delivering goods from RoI to NI and is involved in an accident and is injured. Will such a person have any rights in UK, are they insured?
Im sure an easy workaround can be found where it is a necessity for a worker to travel from one jurisdiction into another. Isnt that what the SM, CU and freedom of movement solve?
But the Brexiteers are adamant that free movement will end, with their Home Secretary stating only skilled English speakers welcome.
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Is that not a wider issue covered by the discussion around recognition of road haulage licenses. I'd have to look it up but as far as I remember, commercial driving would have to cease on Brexit unless there is a mutual recognition scheme. I think this was one of those temporary arrangements being discussed and put in place back in March - but it may expire

Short answer - if there was a crash out, possibly no commercial driving across border without some agreement (your insurance probably would be void anyway)
 
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