Sudanese War

[Purple]

The current war in Sudan, which started in April last year, has killed between 40,000 and 150,000 people and displaced 10 million internally displaced and 2 million externally displaced. 6-10 million face starvation between now and 2027.
The spill over and disruption will be staggering:

• Somalia and the countries bordering it have a combined population of 280 million.
• It has a 800km border with the Red Sea and the conflict is already disrupting the flow of cargo through the Suez Canal (which transports one seventh of the worlds trade)
• Over half the refugees in Calais are already Somalian and the flow of refugees into Europe from the region will grow massively.
• If we think that such a flow of refugees causes social and economic problems here just think of what it does on a much larger scale in much poorer and less stable neighbouring countries. The genocide in tiny little Rwanda led to the biggest war since the Second World War and the deaths of over 5 million people.
• The UAE are funding and supplying one side and Egypt and Iran are supplying the other with Russia playing both sides in its ongoing campaign to undermine the West. Where are the calls for boycotts of those countries?

I don't see too many Somalian flags flying here or news reports about the daily dead toll. We should be way more concerned about this conflict than what's happening in Gaza as it will have a far greater impact on us and cause the death and suffering of far more people.

How come we don't care?

 

[Purple]

Why Sudan’s catastrophic war is the world’s problem​

From the Economist.

 

[thedaddyman]

Article in yesterdays Sunday times on it as well so it is getting some coverage.

How come we don't care (and I'm not saying I agree with all of this BTW)

• We don't have "boots on the ground" like we have in the Lebanon and Israel/Gaza could and is spilling over there.
• Probably a bit of latent racism, yet another African civil war being fought by despots and tinpot army dictators
• Its not in Europe (like Ukraine)
• It's further away
• It's a 3rd world country
• There is no clear way to fix it

 

[cremeegg]

The current war in Sudan, which started in April last year, has killed between 40,000 and 150,000 people and displaced 10 million internally displaced and 2 million externally displaced. 6-10 million face starvation between now and 2027.

Firstly credit to Purple for bringing this up. It is almost invisible here.

You don't explain how civil war in Sudan is driving refugees from Somalia.

The UAE are funding and supplying one side and Egypt and Iran are supplying the other with Russia playing both sides in its ongoing campaign to undermine the West. Where are the calls for boycotts of those countries?

I don't see too many Somalian flags flying here or news reports about the daily dead toll. We should be way more concerned about this conflict than what's happening in Gaza as it will have a far greater impact on us and cause the death and suffering of far more people.

How come we don't care?

In fairness to public opinion, we care more when our taxes and the taxes of countries we are closely connected with are being used to fund and arm slaughter.

 

[Purple]

Firstly credit to Purple for bringing this up. It is almost invisible here.

Thanks

You don't explain how civil war in Sudan is driving refugees from Somalia.

My typo. It should have said Sudan, not Somalia

In fairness to public opinion, we care more when our taxes and the taxes of countries we are closely connected with are being used to fund and arm slaughter.

Where do you think Sudan gets it's arms?

 

[cremeegg]

Where do you think Sudan gets it's arms?

The UAE, Egypt and Iran ?

 

[Purple]

The UAE, Egypt and Iran ?

And Libya and Chad and the Central African Republic. All places that are awash with weapons from the US, Europe and Russia sent during previous and current conflicts and from anyone else who cares to from the Middle East via the Red Sea. They also have a significant domestic manufacturing capability.

 

[Purple]

Meanwhile in Sudan;

Sudan war death toll much higher than previously recorded, new study finds​

60,000 dead, 11,000,000 displaced and 25,000,000 living off aid.
Not a dickeybird out of Michael Martin about this conflict. Not a word against UAE, despite them backing one side, the same side as Russia, while stealing millions on gold from the country.

 

[Itchy]

It’s a top 3 of Ireland’s global security issues?

MM statement in October.

Statement by the Tánaiste on the situation in Sudan

www.gov.ie

Spoke out against the most recent veto at the UNSC https://www.ireland.ie/en/un/newyor...chive/use-of-the-veto-the-situation-in-sudan/

It’s in our national statement to the UNGA last September and MM mentioned it personally during Irelands contribution to the UNSC the following day https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/14c2e-...ds-national-statement-at-un-general-assembly/

Joined EU arms embargo and sanctions.

At home, the committee on Foreign Affairs and Defence had a hearing on the 8th October https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oirea...s_and_defence/2024-10-08/debate/mul@/main.pdf

 

[Purple]

It’s a top 3 of Ireland’s global security issues?

It's certainly more of a concern for us as a country in that it has a direct and significant effect on world trade.

 

[Purple]

Meanwhile in Sudan:
A new Prime Minister has been appointed, although it's very doubtful that it will change anything. Rape and sexual violence against women and girls as young as 11 is endemic.

The death tole is impossible to accurately estimate but could be in excess of 150,000. The UN estimates that 14 million people have been displaces. The conflict is spilling over into South Sudan which is now teetering on the edge of Civil War. The Sudanese Government has cut off relations with UAE due to their support for the RSF, though they have failed to make UAE accountable for their actions.

Ireland has called for a boycott on the UAE and want to sanction their government and are supporting a case in the International Court of Justice against their leadership... oh wait, no, they're not Jews... actually we are doing nothing.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

The position of SH and MM are not anti-semitic. They are purely populist. They sought to outflank SF in the run up to the GE, which they successfully achieved. If they had been ambivalent or balanced like the UK, SF would have trounced them.
It is a club which has about 95% populist support but it will not forgive them for the Lowry sell-out and it will not excuse their inevitable failure on housing. Basically, it's past its political sell by date in these parts.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

@Purple I was having a spat with my sister, the Dowager of Jam, along these lines - asking her why she is not exercised by what is happening in Sudan. She retorted that that was a civil war between folk of equal claim to the country whilst Israel is an an occupation and displacement of the original inhabitants. I was not impressed by her riposte.

 

[Purple]

@Purple I was having a spat with my sister, the Dowager of Jam, along these lines - asking her why she is not exercised by what is happening in Sudan. She retorted that that was a civil war between folk of equal claim to the country whilst Israel is an an occupation and displacement of the original inhabitants. I was not impressed by her riposte.

I hope you pointed out the factual inaccuracy of her position, and the futility of such arguments since, in nearly every case, it depends on from when you start measuring it.

 

[Purple]

Meanwhile in Sudan; an estimated 500,000 children have already starved to death in the last 2 years with hundreds of thousands more suffering from acute malnutrition. Over 25,000,000 people are facing acute food shortages.

On 1 August, the Global Famine Review Committee officially determined that there were IPC Phase 5 famine conditions ongoing in the Zamzam IDP camp near Al-Fashir, with plausible evidence of famine occurring in the nearby Al Salam and Abu Shouk camps. According to UNICEF, for a famine to be declared, citizens and children must have already begun to "die from hunger and related conditions including malnutrition and infection".<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024–present)#cite_note-18"><span>[</span>18<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024–present)#cite_note-19"><span>[</span>19<span>]</span></a> Mid-upper arm circumference (MUAC) reviews conducted by MSF and the State Ministry of Health from late March to early April 2024 showed that about 33.7% of civilians in West Darfur suffered from global acute malnutrition, as well as 29.4% of children tested in the Zamzam IDP camp and 20% in the general Al-Fashir area. Satellite imaging analysis on the Zamzam camp indicated a ~26% faster rate of increase in counted graves between 18 December 2023 and 3 May 2024 relative to a similar period in 2022-2023. At least 64 deaths were determined to be caused by malnutrition or diseases caused or exacerbated by malnutrition in Zamzam camp, with fifteen of the reported deaths being children under five.

Source

Just imagine how upset everyone would be if they weren't black!

 

[Sister Sara]

Firstly credit to Purple for bringing this up. It is almost invisible here.

I will second that. I have to admit I know little of it.

How come we don't care?

I think when you say 'we' that should be defined.

As a Josephine soap citizen I rely primarily on the editorial decisions of the media outlets to keep me abreast of international matters. A search on the RTE website for 'Sudan' turns up articles from 18 Apr 2023 and before.

That is shocking! It almost amounts to a media black-out. While the Gaza genocide is up front and centre, rightly so, it is a peculiarity why the silence over Sudan. In some ways the Russia/Ukraine conflict is also blacked out to a lessor extent with ChatGTP informing me that Russia has suffered over 1,000,000 military casualties (killed or incapacitated).

Back to Sudan, I did a quick 'Sudan war for Dummies'

Apparently, a dictator was overthrown by popular revolt in 2019 aided by the military. The military has since split in two as to who should govern and to what extent democracy is afforded to the citizens. US, EU and UK remain broadly neutral recognising the Sudanese army (SAF) as the official army but stopping short of endorsing their authority.
They also recognise the paramilitary (RSF) but don't endorse and the US has sanctioned some RSF leaders and declared some acts as genocide.

Eygpt and UAE are directly involved on either side of the conflict providing weapons. Russia has its nose involved for strategic and political reasons, vetoing a UNSC resolution for a ceasefire.

Ireland has taken a humanitarian stance condeming violence and protection of civilians. Ireland has urges regional powers to stop supplying weapons to all combatants.

I don't see too many Sudanese flags flying here

True. But probably because the media are not informing the public of the extent of the catastrophe (why, I do not know) and also because both factions most probably lay claim to the Sudanese flag - which is strikingly resesembling the Palestinian flag.

 

[Purple]

I think when you say 'we' that should be defined.

Irish people and the Western world in general.
It's not in the news because we don't care about it. Famine is a great money spinner for the Charities Industry but they advertise about Gaza rather than Sudan, even though the situation in Sudan is far worse, because Irish people in general care about Palestinians and don't care about black Africans.

Back to Sudan, I did a quick 'Sudan war for Dummies'

Apparently, a dictator was overthrown by popular revolt in 2019 aided by the military. The military has since split in two as to who should govern and to what extent democracy is afforded to the citizens. US, EU and UK remain broadly neutral recognising the Sudanese army (SAF) as the official army but stopping short of endorsing their authority.
They also recognise the paramilitary (RSF) but don't endorse and the US has sanctioned some RSF leaders and declared some acts as genocide.

Eygpt and UAE are directly involved on either side of the conflict providing weapons. Russia has its nose involved for strategic and political reasons, vetoing a UNSC resolution for a ceasefire.

Quite a good summary, though like most conflicts it goes back into the mists of time and the Colonial era.

Ireland has taken a humanitarian stance condeming violence and protection of civilians. Ireland has urges regional powers to stop supplying weapons to all combatants.

Yep, that will make all the difference. I think we also wrote a strongly worded letter to the Irish Times.

But probably because the media are not informing the public of the extent of the catastrophe (why, I do not know)

Have a guess. Do you think that the location of the conflict, the colour of the protagonists, and the absence of Americans or Jews influence it?

 

[Sister Sara]

they advertise about Gaza rather than Sudan,

I've just had a look at the Concern website, one of the most prominent charities that Im aware of. https://www.concern.net/ This is their website page.



Central Africa Republic, Sudan (as seen on TV), Gaza and Afghanistan earthquake. By any reckoning they afford equal, if not more advertising for the crisis in Sudan.

because Irish people in general care about Palestinians and don't care about black Africans

This is not true. Irish people have shown themselves forward in standing up for black Africans. I recall the whole Live Aid period when the media focused on the plight of starving Ethiopians and how Irish people rallied behind the cause to raise money to end the starvation.
I recall when Irish workers went on strike in support of black South Africans to end the apartheid regime. The public pressure, in part, forced the media to keep highlighting the situation , in turn putting pressure on the political establishment to take action against the apartheid regime.

Have a guess. Do you think that the location of the conflict, the colour of the protagonists, and the absence of Americans or Jews influence it?

Absolutely not. See above. With the exception that the US/EU are only acting as intermediaries for the time being. The media appear to have buried this from the public eye. It is an absolute failure. Perhaps its on the direction of the political establishment, who knows, it is a failure.

The fact that Gaza is front and centre has nothing to with Jews. The Palestine issue has been going for 80yrs. The issue is embedded in the international pysche. Israel has, disgracefully, banned international journalists to enter Gaza and independently verify what is going on. They are also targeting Palestinian journalists and to my mind, it is to try cover up their heinous crimes.

 

[Purple]

I've just had a look at the Concern website

That's not advertising.

This is not true. Irish people have shown themselves forward in standing up for black Africans.

Yea, in the past, when it was white people doing the oppressing (with the help of Israel) and when Bob Geldof etc did great work highlighting the Ethiopian famine. Not much interest in the great work done by him and Bono afterwards. Not too much interest in the even greater work Bono did in relation to HIV/AIDS in Africa. No interest in Rwanda or the resulting Congolese Civil War.

Perhaps its on the direction of the political establishment, who knows, it is a failure.

You're having a laugh! The media is mainly left wing smoked salmon socialists and for the most part hostile towards the government.

The fact that Gaza is front and centre has nothing to with Jews.

Maybe not for you, though you have frequently used the word Zionist as a pejorative term so...

The Palestine issue has been going for 80yrs. The issue is embedded in the international pysche.

Really? The international psyche? The 70,000 displaced people in Manipur in India and the Rohingya in Rakhine State in Myanmar (1,500,000 now refugees in Bangladesh) and the 6,000,000 dead and 9,000,000 displaced in the DRC since 1998 (in the biggest war since the Second World War) and the 6,000,000 displaced and 700,000 dead in the current Sudanese Civil War are all losing sleep over Gaza? The Uyghus Muslims in Chine who face starvation, forced sterilisation, forced abortions, indoctrination and their children being stolen and given away all find the Palestinians occupying their thoughts when they have a spare moment? Ukrainians facing the onslaught of the Russian dictator are worrying about the Palestinians? The people in the neighbouring States are all more concerned about Gaza than the much larger conflicts on their doorsteps?

I don't think so.

Oh, and all of the above conflicts have been going on for at least 80 years in one form or another. Many are the result of partition and lines drawn on maps where empires and great powers carved up the carcasses of former empires and great powers.

 

[Sister Sara]

That's not advertising.

Oh c'mon! "As seen on TV" is marketing shorthand for advertising!

The media is mainly left wing smoked salmon socialists and for the most part hostile towards the government.

I thought the government was left-wing too?

though you have frequently used the word Zionist as a pejorative term so

But not all Zionists are Jews. You said yourself, anyone who believes in the right of the State of Israel to exist is a zionist. Now you seem to be tying the word zionist to Jews exclusively? Which is it?

Oh, and all of the above conflicts have been going on for at least 80 years in one form or another. Many are the result of partition and lines drawn on maps where empires and great powers carved up the carcasses of former empires and great powers.

Well thanks for all that, and credit it to you for provoking my interest in the current Sudanese war. I'm still grappling with the overall detail to determine what action I think Ireland should take. Any suggestions?

All I can say with the rest is that I sense a direct correlation between the media failing in its critical role to highlight these issues in a prominent way for the public to become alerted, as they have done with Gaza. I cannot explain why they are failing, but I don't think its down to Irish people not having an interest rather the other way around.