Should we get rid of free travel of OAPs?

ashambles said:
Last minute usually isn't defined as booking over a week ahead for a routine train journey.

If "most people" were able to book ahead and get discount prices Irish rail would be rapidly fixing their booking system. So clearly most people don't do that.

This isn't Ryanair or even Ouigo with a range of prices from very low to very high. It's a handful at lower prices then everything else at the standard rate. So the average price paid is close to the standard price, where at ouigo it'd be closer to some price half way in the range.
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Weekend prices on Ryanair and Ouigo will usually be higher than midweek. Anyway I've pointed out that lower prices are available, I've availed of them myself, but obviously you haven't been able to - that doesn't mean they're not available generally. I'm not really sure what point you're making about Irish Rail "fixing" their booking system if too many people were buying the acknowledged cheaper rates, the whole point of the discounted rates is to fill up trains that might not otherwise be full, that's why there aren't as many available at weekends when they'd be busier anyway.

Anyway your issue has nothing to do with the actual topic of free travel for OAPs.
 
Purple said:
See that's the problem, people think that but it's untrue. Only a quarter of pensioners rely solely on social transfers for their income and one in eight have a weekly disposable income of €1000 or more.
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And from the report's conclusions we see that:

While 1 in 8 (13%) people aged 50 or over have an income of €1,000 or more a week, around 30% live on between €201 and €300.

Another finding from the same link: State pensions are the most important source of income among older people in Ireland and make up around two-thirds of gross income for those aged 65 and over.

From which the authors conclude that: a ‘one size fits all’ approach to social welfare policy would ignore that different groups would be affected differently by policy changes. (Like, for example, getting rid of free travel for ALL OAPS!)
 
Groucho said:
And from the report's conclusions we see that:

While 1 in 8 (13%) people aged 50 or over have an income of €1,000 or more a week, around 30% live on between €201 and €300.
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€300 a week after the cost of housing is a good income, especially if there's two people in the household getting that much.
Groucho said:
Another finding from the same link: State pensions are the most important source of income among older people in Ireland and make up around two-thirds of gross income for those aged 65 and over.

From which the authors conclude that: a ‘one size fits all’ approach to social welfare policy would ignore that different groups would be affected differently by policy changes. (Like, for example, getting rid of free travel for ALL OAPS!)
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I agree completely. I've never suggested that it should be removed from all of them. I've suggested that it should be removed from those who have no financial need for it. I don't think rich people should get direct social transfers.
 
This is really much ado about nothing. What would be the exchequer saving?

It is not about the number of travel passes, it is about regular usage.

Do “rich” OAPs change the habit of a lifetime and start using public transport on a daily or weekly basis because they have a free pass? I doubt it.

I suspect that staff allocation and administrative costs involved in means testing every pensioner could not be justified.
 
Sophrosyne said:
This is really much ado about nothing. What would be the exchequer saving?

It is not about the number of travel passes, it is about regular usage.

Do “rich” OAPs change the habit of a lifetime and start using public transport on a daily or weekly basis because they have a free pass? I doubt it.

I suspect that staff allocation and administrative costs involved in means testing every pensioner could not be justified.
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In 2018 there were 140.4 million Dublin Bus journeys of which free travel was 23.89 million (17%). DB revenue was €232.69m (including PSO and paid fares) of which free travel income was €20.4m (9%). Seems there is a shortfall which is probably made up from PSO/fares.

Source: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Bus_and_Rail_Statistics_2019.pdf

The entire free travel budget for 2018 (bus, rail, etc.) across Ireland was €76m. Scrapping it would not make much dent in the government budget.

I think wealthier people will use private transport anyway. The people I know with the nicest cars are all retired!

From a practical point of view if you have peak time restrictions you will have more people arriving late for appointments with hospitals, social welfare, etc. which has a much bigger cost to economy and society.
 
Purple said:
€300 a week after the cost of housing is a good income, especially if there's two people in the household getting that much.
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But €200 isn't!

See what I did there? You picked the maximum figure in the spread so I picked the minimum.

But of course, as we both know, the average weekly income probably somewhere in the middle.
 
arbitron said:
Access to transport is one of the major social determinants of health. Free travel is in fact a public health intervention that benefits both the individual and society in general.
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Can anyone tell me why we should do the dirt on the old people.[Senior citizens]and what would it achieve.These people have worked hard all their life [maybe 50 years]and looked forward to retirement and a small bit of enjoyment.It does not make much sense to me i think.
 
DK123 said:
Can anyone tell me why we should do the dirt on the old people.[Senior citizens]and what would it achieve.These people have worked hard all their life [maybe 50 years]and looked forward to retirement and a small bit of enjoyment.It does not make much sense to me i think.
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From reading the thread the problem is that some of the richest people in Ireland have access to free public transport.
 
It would be a brave government to introduce this. My Grandmother used to send Charlie Haughey a Christmas card every year to thank him for free travel. Our current rulers need all the help they can get because of generation rent looking elsewhere in the next election. The gray vote is very valuable.
 
Silversurfer said:
It would be a brave government to introduce this. My Grandmother used to send Charlie Haughey a Christmas card every year to thank him for free travel. Our current rulers need all the help they can get because of generation rent looking elsewhere in the next election. The gray vote is very valuable.
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Dead right too. Seems a lot of jealous type people have it in for the old pensioner and the Public Servant. I've news for you boys and girls; their pay and hopefully entitlements are going up. Awful I know, but go and pick on someone else now. There's lots more low hanging fruit out there to be picked. Almost 100% employment out there, one fiasco after another mostly solved by the goverment, housing an issue and that's a given but an awful lot of people sleeping on the street are there because of self abuse, though not all of them. I do believe we'll get on top of it when councils start to build houses again, the picky picky attitude in accepting a place is clamped down on and an audit is made of those on social housing is completed and acted on. No more of this one full house to one person is tolerated.
 
PaddyBloggit said:
All generations have their slackers and always will.
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Exactly. A retired slacker is called a pensioner. They were no more or less inclined to hard work than any generation before or after. They certainly worked longer hours but the high water mark for doing bugger-all in the Public Sector was the 1970's. State employees now are more qualified and more monitored than ever.

For the record I've no problem helping people who need help, particularly older people who are generally more frail, but I do have a problem giving precious State resourced to anyone who doesn't need the help.
 
Silversurfer said:
It would be a brave government to introduce this. My Grandmother used to send Charlie Haughey a Christmas card every year to thank him for free travel. Our current rulers need all the help they can get because of generation rent looking elsewhere in the next election. The gray vote is very valuable.
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So leave it there for well off pensioners not because it's needed or right but because pensioners are greedy and selfish and lacking in moral fibre? That's a scathing indictment of older people. I disagree as I have a higher regard for them and think they are as likely to do the right thing as younger people.

I do agree that it is in the self interest of rich older people to vote for the Shinners and they are a Party for the rich and the old.
 
Sue Ellen said:
@Purple @T McGibney

I don't usually rise to the bait on these type of threads but I find your views and comments to be horrible and extremely upsetting.

My beloved and beautiful Mother was one of the old age pensioners who died of Covid in hospital where she was receiving treatment for cancer. She did not need to lose weight and neither she, nor we, could do more to protect her unfortunately.

Kindly stop and think in future about who you are offending before you post.
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Sorry for your loss. RIP.

By the way, I fully stand by my comments.
 
Groucho said:
But €200 isn't!

See what I did there? You picked the maximum figure in the spread so I picked the minimum.

But of course, as we both know, the average weekly income probably somewhere in the middle.
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Yes, and those people should continue to get free pubic transport.

Rich people shouldn't.
 
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