Should we get rid of free travel of OAPs?

Purple

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Ideologically, I would agree with you.

But in practice, the free travel is a real benefit to people and should be as widely available as possible.

In fact, for environmental reasons, I might extend it to everyone.

Brendan
Extent it to everyone by all means but as long as poorer younger people have to pay for it then rich older people should have to as well.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi Tommy

Not sure I follow your train of thought here?

Is it that because there is free travel
The bus companies must cater for a possible upsurge in travel every day?

The DART is jammed during rush hour. But it's very low occupancy outside that.

It is one of the problems with transport whether people are paying for it or not.

Brendan
 

T McGibney

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Hi Tommy

Not sure I follow your train of thought here?

Is it that because there is free travel
The bus companies must cater for a possible upsurge in travel every day?
There is a local link bus network that caters mainly for free-travel customers. It's almost always empty and only survives by subsidy. There is never much of an upsurge in usage. It is grossly inefficient in environmental terms.
 

Brendan Burgess

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Hi Tommy

I don't think that is an argument against free travel.

If free travel were abolished in the morning, the community would still demand a subsidised bus service.

Brendan
 

T McGibney

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Hi Tommy

I don't think that is an argument against free travel.

If free travel were abolished in the morning, the community would still demand a subsidised bus service.

Brendan
It's more of an observation than an argument, Brendan.

I don't buy the alarmism that the planet is burning and we all have to don sackcloth and ashes to save it, but many of the people including policymakers who do, also advocate for free or subsidised travel. There's a contradiction there.
 

PGF2016

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It's more of an observation than an argument, Brendan.

I don't buy the alarmism that the planet is burning and we all have to don sackcloth and ashes to save it, but many of the people including policymakers who do, also advocate for free or subsidised travel. There's a contradiction there.
What is the contradiction? That public transport is less environmentally friendly than private cars?
 

PGF2016

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No, that if the world is really burning, shouldn't we be having less transport rather than more?
Subsidize public transport. Get 30 people onto a bus. That's up to 30 cars car journeys being replaced by one bus trip. I don't see how that is a contradiction.

Obviously empty buses driving around Cavan is nonsense and should be stopped / fixed.
 

T McGibney

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Subsidize public transport. Get 30 people onto a bus. That's up to 30 cars car journeys being replaced by one bus trip. I don't see how that is a contradiction.
By that logic, public transport should only be subsidised for car owners and drivers and should be discouraged for everyone else?

Otherwise, by the same logic, they're just being encouraged to burn the planet even more by taking unnecessary journeys.
 

ashambles

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Any time I'm abroad I use trains, it's the best way to travel. In Ireland they're too expensive and crowded, it's cheaper and more pleasant to drive and pay for parking. That's not great for the environment.

Why are they so expensive? At least in part because of free travel. Over 1m people have access to free travel, probably about 25%+ of the adult population.

Free travel means Irish Rail have had a free hand to demand price hikes. For Irish Rail they can charge what they like because a large section of their users simply don't care - the government is going to hand over the cash for them. (Many people don't understand how the system works - they genuinely think Irish Rail is letting them on for nothing).

Free travel is great for OAPs, but in a limited form - maybe off peak (like it used to be) and with a reasonable number of journeys per year before a reduced ticket price kicks in.
 

PGF2016

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By that logic, public transport should only be subsidised for car owners and drivers and should be discouraged for everyone else?

Otherwise, by the same logic, they're just being encouraged to burn the planet even more by taking unnecessary journeys.
A small downside. Insignificant, I'd suggest, in the greater scheme of things and better than the status quo.

And judging by neighbours who drive their kids less than 1km to the local school / GAA pitches there are plenty of unnecessary journeys being undertaken now despite climate change / cost of living / obesity etc.

Probably gone off topic.
 

T McGibney

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A small downside. Insignificant, I'd suggest, in the greater scheme of things and better than the status quo.
That neither addresses nor rebuts the contradiction I spotted earlier.
And judging by neighbours who drive their kids less than 1km to the local school / GAA pitches there are plenty of unnecessary journeys being undertaken now despite climate change / cost of living / obesity etc.
Well if you keep the little blighters away from the GAA pitches you won't be doing much to combat obesity. But you will save money, and maybe stop the planet burning.
 

Purple

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That neither addresses nor rebuts the contradiction I spotted earlier.

Well if you keep the little blighters away from the GAA pitches you won't be doing much to combat obesity. But you will save money, and maybe stop the planet burning.
Maybe just let the planet burn, I didn't know that was happening, I though Climate Change was the issue, but either way in the longer term letting it happen will sort out many of the other problems as there'll be fewer people.
 

dereko1969

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Any time I'm abroad I use trains, it's the best way to travel. In Ireland they're too expensive and crowded, it's cheaper and more pleasant to drive and pay for parking. That's not great for the environment.

Why are they so expensive? At least in part because of free travel. Over 1m people have access to free travel, probably about 25%+ of the adult population.

Free travel means Irish Rail have had a free hand to demand price hikes. For Irish Rail they can charge what they like because a large section of their users simply don't care - the government is going to hand over the cash for them. (Many people don't understand how the system works - they genuinely think Irish Rail is letting them on for nothing).

Free travel is great for OAPs, but in a limited form - maybe off peak (like it used to be) and with a reasonable number of journeys per year before a reduced ticket price kicks in.
When was the last time you checked train fares in Ireland? Apart from Cork/Kerry most other journeys are very reasonable if you book online. What sort of price would be acceptable to you? Whilst 1m people may have access to free travel there certainly weren't hordes of them using it when I was going up and down from Galway to Dublin for a few months.
I think the fares reductions seem to have passed people by as they haven't been looking to use the train so base their decisions on what used to be the case. €15 for the train to Galway from Dublin is great value.
 

dereko1969

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It would be great if Tommy could provide even a scintilla of evidence of the roads of Cavan being clogged up with empty buses, the timetables don't suggest a massive amount of bus journeys (empty or otherwise).
 

PGF2016

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That neither addresses nor rebuts the contradiction I spotted earlier.
It should be subsidized for all. If you subsidize for car owners then that incentivizes car ownership which not all can afford or need.
Well if you keep the little blighters away from the GAA pitches you won't be doing much to combat obesity. But you will save money, and maybe stop the planet burning.
Never said anything about keeping them away from GAA pitches.

I said unnecessary car journeys are being made to ferry kids ~600 meters to the pitches. It would be much better for all if such journeys were undertaken on foot (unless there's a need to drive e.g. disability, unsafe / no footpath etc.)
 

T McGibney

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It would be great if Tommy could provide even a scintilla of evidence of the roads of Cavan being clogged up with empty buses, the timetables don't suggest a massive amount of bus journeys (empty or otherwise).
What sort of evidence would satisfy you, Derek? :D
I said unnecessary car journeys are being made to ferry kids ~600 meters to the pitches. It would be much better for all if such journeys were undertaken on foot (unless there's a need to drive e.g. disability, unsafe / no footpath etc.)
Sadly, a family I know lost their teen daughter who was hit by a car while walking to/from our local GAA pitch some years ago, a few hundred yards from the pitch.
 

T McGibney

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It should be subsidized for all. If you subsidize for car owners then that incentivizes car ownership which not all can afford or need.
Then you're subsidising what the environmentalists call unnecessary journeys.
 
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