That is a major improvement alright.
I wonder if they got legal advice that the previous method was open to legal challenge. 10 properties all showing old capped rents are no indication of what market rent is.
RTB Rent Register
- Thread starter Sr. Tayto
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I wonder if they got legal advice that the previous method was open to legal challenge. 10 properties all showing old capped rents are no indication of what market rent is.
LarryScott
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That could very easily be the case.
They clearly had requirements that landlords couldn't follow, since they didn't provide enough info.
Its a start. They also need to indicate even if its a new tenancy if its a true free market rent or is it a controlled increase on an already locked rent.
And they need to get rid of these in the screenshot out of it too because they are not market rents either.
According to the instructions to landlords given by the RTB Compliance Officer in the recent IPOA webinar all new tenancies must match a rent already on the RTB Rent Register. That would mean it is impossible for any rent to be a free market rent - whether it's a new tenancy on an existing rental unit, or a new tenancy of a unit newly introduced to the market for the first time.
It also makes it functionally impossible for rents to rise over time.
In theory it might appear that rent can rise up to 2% per annum (lower if inflation is lower), but as I understand it any 2% rise during a tenancy also has to go through the same rent setting rigmarole - requiring, according to the RTB, the new rent to "match" one already on the register.
So again, that requirement the RTB stated - "you must find a match from the register, you cannot exceed market rent" - also makes even the 'permitted' annual rises impossible to obtain.
Find where it says that in the legislation.
I'm reporting what the RTB head of Compliance told the IPOA (with zero push-back from them, by the way) that landlords must do.
You can take the view that she is an idiot who doesn't understand what market rent means, or that she's cynically trying to bully landlords, but apparently it's her you'll be dealing with.
Indeed, Emer Morrissey presented. She is the Head of Investigations and Sanctions, no less.
It was all the more bizarre she presented as the as the Head of Communication and Engagement was also on the call but didn't say a word. The RTB clearly trying to send a signal.
Exactly, IPOA very weak now.
That intention was clear - she specifically pointed out it was a criminal offence to incorrectly set and review rent. She stated clearly they will be proactively going after accommodation providers that set rent above market rent. And also said they can mandate refunds going back as far as 2019.
Chocolate teapots
This is NOT my recollection of the webinar. My understanding was you supply 3 rents, they can be under or over, makes no difference.
Coming back to this, I have ZERO confidence in anything said at the webinar. And I've zero confidence in the RTB website to give correct guidance. But I can tell you this, I have it in writing from the RTB that: No the comparables do not have to be exactly equal to ...., then they say: it must not be above market rent .... and then they say: must demonstrate your rent is not higher than comparable properties .....
This whole area is a right mess.
Let's take this example I'm going to make up:
Property empty for 3 years, month of June, auctioneer says rent for a one bed is €2500, there is zero on the RTB comparables even close. Let's say we have a high one of €1500. Now in August a builder builds 10 one beds, (on the same street/size/ber/etc) and uses my €2500 as his base, and then let's say the RTB says my one is above market rent (it's not because market rent means what a willing tenant will pay and the legislation doesn't say otherwise as it does not define it) . So now the RTB says my rent is wrong when the tenant complains next year at rent setting date, and then RTB says I've to reduce to €1500 (which would be madness, but we are dealing with the wonderful world of Irish Landlord quagmires ....) .
So what about the builder with his 10 one beds, his rent is also wrong .......... because it's based on my incorrect high rent !
The builder will have to reduce his rents to €1,500 also. Once they knock first landlord back, everyone else above €1,500 falls also. That is the plan.
Not a single one of those in your list is any use to you. They are ALL from 2025. But well done, I see the RTB have added a new column with the actual month in it.
Update on the RTB and also update on my case.
- RTB has a new column with the month in it.
- also has a new column "Annual Reg" or "New Tenancy Registration"
- my missing rental is now up
- my rents are the highest
- rents on the lists now run to more than 10 if you are doing a city area
- there are still many rents listed from 2024 (so useless)
- many also from 2025 (so useless)
- an awful lot of the comparables do not have BER's at all.
- RTB has a new column with the month in it.
- also has a new column "Annual Reg" or "New Tenancy Registration"
- my missing rental is now up
- my rents are the highest
- rents on the lists now run to more than 10 if you are doing a city area
- there are still many rents listed from 2024 (so useless)
- many also from 2025 (so useless)
- an awful lot of the comparables do not have BER's at all.
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Of note is there is now the rental month, but it's the month of 1st registration.
What do you others think of the following: (I just typed in Limerick as an example)
- Surely Patrickswell is a town outside of Limerick city?
- the two red circled registrations are from 2024 - reregistered in 2025
- the two circled in blue are 2025, reregistered in 2026
- red dots are no BER's
- there are about 35 on the new lists
Question:
Does this mean that the important date - for the 3 month rule - means that anything registered before 3 months ago on that list is a waste of everybodies time. And that in this example, only the last one, May 2026 can be used if setting rent for tomorrow. (even the March 2026 is more than 3 months ago.
What do you others think of the following: (I just typed in Limerick as an example)
- Surely Patrickswell is a town outside of Limerick city?
- the two red circled registrations are from 2024 - reregistered in 2025
- the two circled in blue are 2025, reregistered in 2026
- red dots are no BER's
- there are about 35 on the new lists
Question:
Does this mean that the important date - for the 3 month rule - means that anything registered before 3 months ago on that list is a waste of everybodies time. And that in this example, only the last one, May 2026 can be used if setting rent for tomorrow. (even the March 2026 is more than 3 months ago.
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No they are no use to anybody because they are all cost rentals. They should not be in any list of market prices.
What do you mean? RPZ rentals?
Some of those rents are astonishingly now, the €572 for example.
That's just under 7k per year. If you take off 2k for block management and other expenses and then deduct tax, the landlord is making around €200 per month. Whoever the landlord is, he is taking on an huge level of risk for a tiny return.
So much for all the gouging landlords
That's just under 7k per year. If you take off 2k for block management and other expenses and then deduct tax, the landlord is making around €200 per month. Whoever the landlord is, he is taking on an huge level of risk for a tiny return.
So much for all the gouging landlords