Royal Canal Park/Rathborne/Earlswood

Anyone got any views on this new Ballymore development or the Castlethorn development beside it (Rathborne and Earlswood).

I think it will be a very successful development. At the moment it's a building site but it's improving by the day. It will be a high density development with the population necessary to support the planned facilities and amenites. And it's in a nice location with good local (non-fee paying) schools. The key to it in my opinion is the closeness of the railway with a 12 minute journey to Connolly. In that regard, I'd prefer Rathborne as its a 3 minute walk from Ashtown station rather than Royal canal Park which could be more like 15 minutes. There is a "proposed" station at Royal Canal Park itself but I have my doubts as to whether it will materialise. Caveat emptor and all that......... Earlswood is not part of the Castlethorn development (although it's marketed by HOK, the same agent) and is in between Rathborne and Royal Canal Park, but personally I think its marginally the least impressive of the three developments in terms of build and finish quality. Rathborne and Royal Canal Park both went on sale off plans in April '03. One-bed apts were €215k in both. The current phase prices in Rathborne are €265 and in Royal Canal Park €249 respectively. A few apartments have been sold recently and are easily fetching these prices. All the developments are filling up, with (to my eyes anyway!) a very young population of residents. There seems to be a large percentage of owner-occupiers and the few properties that are rented seem to go very quickly. Rents are about €900 for a one-bed, €1100 for a two-bed, €1300 for a three-bed.

Given that all Dublin prices are crazy anyway, it's as good value as you'll get for a nice location this close to the city centre and on a Rail/Dart/Luas line.

Called by at the weekend and was very impressed with the Marketing Suite (and the wine!). Still I wouldn't be investing as I am a firm believer in houses rather than apartments (as an investment...). At the time Ballymore announced the whole scheme they mentioned there would be 6000 units, its own train station blah blah blah.........

What I don't like about the development is the scale / the location (adjacent to the Dunsink settlement) where less than 12 months ago the cops were afraid to go into because the lads were so heavily armed. But also the level of development on the beautiful Phoenix Park racecourse (2000 units) on top of all the other development around Blanchardstown / Clonsilla means that the traffic along that area can be a nightmare.

If that train station doesn't materialise ... ouch!

Roy

In all fairness now, "adjacent" to Dunsink, et al, is putting it a bit strongly. Especially for the Rathborne end, which is about as accessible from dunsink as the Phoenix Park racecourse development is.

As a regular on that train line into town, I wonder how they'll fit any of the new residents into the already packed trains...when the doors open at Ashtown they'll be looking at a bunch of unhappy, squashed commuters.


Welcome onboard lemmings!

Observer said:

In all fairness now, "adjacent" to Dunsink, et al, is putting it a bit strongly. Especially for the Rathborne end, which is about as accessible from dunsink as the Phoenix Park racecourse development is.

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Observer, maybe I got it wrong in that the marketing suite entrance is opposite the old Ormond Printing Company - if this is the case I would have thought that the area that was barricaded last year by our traveller friends is about 1 minute away by car? Please feel free to correct me if I am incorrect in this, maybe the actual entrance to Royal Canal Park is not the same as the marketing suite entrance?

Roy

Dunsink is a good bit away from this development. Long walk anyway and the road isnt accessible to vehicles since all that trouble last year. Its been blocked off with concrete.

Id go with Onekeano on the traffic congestion up there in the future. The racecourse, rathborne, earlswood, royal canal park developments are going to bring some amount of additional traffic.
There also seems to be groundwork being done for more construction on the Navan Road on the Travel Lodge side down near the Esso station.

redbhoy said:

Id go with Onekeano on the traffic congestion up there in the future. The racecourse, rathborne, earlswood, royal canal park developments are going to bring some amount of additional traffic.

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as mentioned before all the development in D15 will use that area to access city center

redbhoy said:

There also seems to be groundwork being done for more construction on the Navan Road on the Travel Lodge side down near the Esso station.

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there were 2 sites sold beside the esso and they are building a new train
station there

Also mentioned unless they add more trains, they will always be full by
the time they reach that area

redbhoy said:

Dunsink is a good bit away from this development. Long walk anyway

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Fair enough Redbhoy but how far away is it in a Hiace

Roy

The development is as much in west Finglas and Cabra as the Navan road. I work in the area and would hate to live there.

Purple said:

The development is as much in west Finglas and Cabra as the Navan road.

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This would be true(ish) of the Royal Canal Park end but not the Rathborne end. It's a long narrow site, nearly a mile from end to end.

Purple said:

I work in the area and would hate to live there.

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If you're into apartment living, it would make for a very pleasant environment (when all facilities are completed) In any event, it seems to be very popular and completed units are renting very fast. From what I can see, most people use the train or bus to commute and most car spaces in the Rathborne car park have never even been parked in. However, I suspect the Phoenix Park Racecourse development will be the one that really puts pressure on traffic in the area. (More families, schools runs etc.)

Checked this out over the weekend:
Royal Canal Park, definitely very close to Cabra and West Finglas, but there is still a clear delineation between the area's. Apartments are fine, quite large, but I would consiider them too cheap either.
Rathborne/Earlswood, probably 1/2 mile further away than Royal Canal, again reasonably sized apartments but more expensive again. The 3 bedroom townhouse at Earlswood impressed me and seemed a lot better value than any of the apartments I saw. Definitely very close to the train station (5 min walk).
The Dunsink road blockade is more than 2 miles away from any of this (presuming that the incidents happened up past Elm Green colf club?).
I also checked DAFT, and the rents are in the 1100 mark for the 2 bedrooms, but there do seem to be a few of them on there. Maybe a few too many investors for my liking (i'm actually looking at places for my brother, who's coming back in 6 months time). One other thing I noticed is that the second hand units in the various developments while priced up more or less in line with the new phases do not seem to be selling all that well. (I know there are stamp duty considerations etc, however, maybe it's more that people want to buy a new apartment).
As regards the train, will it be government policy to increase the frequency of such commuter trains, we all know it probably should be (perhaps the various developers will club together to buy some new trains, afterall every development along the track to Maynooth is sold at a premium to other local developments as they are "right on the commuter line to Pearse St".
One other point, it seems to me that the Phoenix Park development is grossly ovedrpriced in comparison to these, with Rathborne being the most comparable and within 3/4 of a mile of Phoenix Park dvlpmnt (and closer to the train station). Is this purely a marketing issue. ie "live in the park, watch the deer roam as you enjoy your glass of wine, with friends.....".
I would agree with Observer that when the development is completed it could turn out very well, it's not too far from town and does have a number of commuting options.

I know the area around the proposed development at Royal Canal very well, I would if you can, buy somewhere else away from the Royal Canal Park development. You are not just too close to Finglas West, Cabra, NCR, you are in Finglas West and Cabra.

You are also on the edge of Dublin 15 otherwise known as Blanchardstown.

From what I believe, tenants who wish to move from the older Blanchardstown developments are renting in RCP and we know what type of name Blanchardstown now has. To boot the high number of owner-occupiers is due to the movement of people within Finglas West, Cabra and Blanchardstown buying within their local in order to stay in the area. Old run down corpo property is retailing at €310k, this would be for a two bed, dilapidated house which could have been bought for €110k about 6 years ago. The only option for these locals is to buy in RCP. I wish anyone who purchases there the best of luck, but you will not convince me that the social trend in that area is going to make a sudden upward jump, it aint.

As far as I am concerned the RCP is a dangerous investment, as the development could very well slide since it is densely populated and located within one of the most infamous parts of Dublin.The socio-economic staus within the area would not inspire me to invest or purchase their, unless i was from the local and knew the "worts n all " background.

The train line that runs through the development is very much oversubscribed, and as for local amenities if you believe all the rubbish they tell you in the marketing suite, then take a drive around the area, you will soon see that they are talking rubbish.

I have nothing against the people in Cabra, Finglas West etc and I have some friends who live in the area but when people from the area tell you that not to buy their, it simply speaks volumes.



The plus side is that it is near town and it has some commuting options but so does Ballymun.

"Old run down corpo property is retailing at €310k, this would be for a two bed, dilapidated house which could have been bought for €110k about 6 years ago. The only option for these locals is to buy in RCP."

But surely as the new 2 bedroom apartments retail at 340K min, the run down Corpo is still the cheaper option?

You can find some 2 beds in and around the Fassagh Avenue area , they are on paper a cheaper purchase , until you take into account the following : full rewire , plastering , roofing , insulation and soundproffing , plumbing and not to mention the fact that they are extremely small and would require a kitchen extention of circa €12k to make them attractive.
Remeber these are very keenly built old Dublin Corporation units, built between 35/45 and have since had numerous residents who would not have been the most house proud.

I don't imagine too many banks would be rushing to give mortgages to persons of the socio economic status that you describe! Even given their current laxnesss, there are still certain requirements needed for a mortgage, ie. job history, income etc. My worry would be more about the amount of investors in the area, the fact that rents may come down, leading to a surplus of supply and thus a fall in value.

Not sure how 90210 has such an insight into the minds of homeowners in Cabra and how house proud they are or aren’t. It's either very intuitive indeed or just a hackneyed generalisation.
I’d recommend the Cabra / Navan Road area for living in although not sure about investment. I think there’s better cost to rent ratios to be had elsewhere.
However I think if you have €400k plus to spend I would probably be looking around the Old Cabra Road and the New Cabra Road (and all the side roads), Kinvara, Skreen Road, Villa Park all off the Navan Road. They are older, more established and you would know what sort of neighbours you will have in the long term. The problem with any new development is that there will be a lot of investors and that gives the neighbourhood a very transient quality.

fair point, Ashington certainly has some fairly decent looking properties, the problem of course is the stamp duty.

Yeah - being originally from the general area in question, I'd be curious as to how 90210 arrived as such a conclusion/generalisation too. No question the area has had people that have not been "house proud" but no more or less than any other area I would reckon. If I was cynical I'd wonder if there was simply a whiff of good old snobbery about those comments.

BTW - the houses may be small compared to more modern ones in suburban estates but it didn't stop my grandparents (and many like them) raising families number double figures in them. But you tell the young people that these days and blah, blah, blah....

Being a Phibsborian originally I know the Cabra area fairly well and have to say that there always tended to be a great community spirit there. Whilst it was working class (when there was work available...) people I knew from there were as house proud as elsewhere.

I have to say I have noticed an increasing amount of yuppies only too delighted to be moving into Cabra over the last 10 years or so. And prices seem to be very robust there at present.

Roy