Returning cans and plastic bottles

DublinTexas said:
Sooner or later when people start bringing 99% of the material back, who is going to pay for this theater? They are certainly going to look to the taxpayer to compensate the operating loos of this and the companies that are doing the bin collections are either handing the business back to local authorities or want compensation for the millions they lose.

And in the meanwhile, they just cut down multiple mature trees in my area to make room for ....... a recycling bank for plastic and glass.
Click to expand...
Re-turn in its expected funding, had a return rate of 90% set... so that it would fund itself from the 10% unclaimed deposits and the resale value of the recyclables. So if the scheme exceeds expectations, yes, they would have to go to government for more funding... or not be able to do the things they talked about doing such as recycling the items in Ireland.
Bit of a moral hazard for Re-turn that they can hit a point where have a negative incentive to increase the return rate... so I'm not surprised we see gaps in the scheme such as:
(1) deposits being charged in airport and ferry ports where realistically most aren't going to be returned
(2) people who get shopping delivered not being catered for
(3) the large exemption size for the scheme leaves smaller villages without any option to Re-turn. The original exemption of 150 square metres should have been retained instead of the increased 250.

It's absurd that there's no option to bulk Re-turn items at Council depots, or other Council collection points.
 
odyssey06 said:
Re-turn in its expected funding, had a return rate of 90% set... so that it would fund itself from the 10% unclaimed deposits and the resale value of the recyclables. So if the scheme exceeds expectations, yes, they would have to go to government for more funding... or not be able to do the things they talked about doing such as recycling the items in Ireland.
Bit of a moral hazard for Re-turn that they can hit a point where have a negative incentive to increase the return rate... so I'm not surprised we see gaps in the scheme such as:
(1) deposits being charged in airport and ferry ports where realistically most aren't going to be returned
(2) people who get shopping delivered not being catered for
(3) the large exemption size for the scheme leaves smaller villages without any option to Re-turn. The original exemption of 150 square metres should have been retained instead of the increased 250.

It's absurd that there's no option to bulk Re-turn items at Council depots, or other Council collection points.
Click to expand...
Smaller villages have no shops. All villagers go to the towns to shop- and can return their empty containers on their next visit.
 
Knuttell said:
Customers warned bin charges to rise as bottle return scheme hits waste firm profits

www.independent.ie

Customers warned bin charges to rise as bottle return scheme hits waste firm profits

Waste collection companies have warned they may increase prices for recycling bin collections to make up for the loss of plastic bottles and drinks cans to the Deposit Return Scheme (DRS).
www.independent.ie www.independent.ie

Not only is this a bit of a chore but now it's actually going to cost me money.....that's pretty annoying.
Click to expand...
This is one of the problems if you privatise the rubbish collection. The so called competition of several companies is nothing but a cosy cartel, which keeps raising the charges all the time to fund the lavish lifestyle of their owners.
The rubbish collection should have never been privatised. It should be a public utility like Irish Water.
 
Forumuser said:
Smaller villages have no shops. All villagers go to the towns to shop- and can return their empty containers on their next visit.
Click to expand...
Well whatever size you want to call them, there are villages whose shops are smaller than the size exemption (250 square metres), therefore you can shop there but not Re-turn.
 
odyssey06 said:
Well whatever size you want to call them, there are villages whose shops are smaller than the size exemption (250 square metres), therefore you can shop there but not Re-turn.
Click to expand...
I do not know anyone who does all shopping in a small village shop. Virtually everyone here drives 10 or more miles to Aldi, Lidl, Tesco or Supervalu for the main shopping. Absolutely no problem bringing your empties with you.
You need to get your act together and organize your trips better. Dumping your empty returns in your shed and forgetting all about them when you leave for a shopping trip to town is not an option.
I detect an old problem here- people are very unwillingly to change their habits!
This scheme of returning empties has been around in umpteen other EU countries without any problems.
 
Forumuser said:
I do not know anyone who does all shopping in a small village shop. Virtually everyone here drives 10 or more miles to Aldi, Lidl, Tesco or Supervalu for the main shopping. Absolutely no problem bringing your empties with you.
You need to get your act together and organize your trips better. Dumping your empty returns in your shed and forgetting all about them when you leave for a shopping trip to town is not an option.
I detect an old problem here- people are very unwillingly to change their habits!
This scheme of returning empties has been around in umpteen other EU countries without any problems.
Click to expand...
You don't know everybody, as your post implicitly admits.

You don't know anybody who gets their main shopping delivered, no? In other countries such as Denmark, I understand you can return as part of the delivery.

Why is our exemption for taking returns so much larger than other countries, if it worked elsewhere in other EU countries without any problems?
Those of us paying attention detect a different problem here. This is not the same scheme as elsewhere.

People who were recycling responsibly, putting items in green bin are now hit on the double - the time\hassle of returning items, and what seems an inevitable increase in bin charges. We already had kerbside collection of recyclables, many of the countries who introduced this scheme in the past did so before that was in place.
 
I do not know a single person here who does not go to a town sooner or later. Nobody here is stuck in his or her house and just lives of food deliveries.
Housebound older folks have relations calling in who take care of their business. As I said- it is all a matter of organizing things and changing certain habits.
In regards to collect the returns with the next delivery Mr Aldi, Mr Lidl and any of those supermarket owners with a delivery option could be asked to include this service in their delivery portfolio- against a small charge, of course! After all, the delivery is not for free either anymore!
Rubbish collectors are in the game to make a profit. If they lose the valuable stuff like aluminium or certain plastics, their figures don't add up anymore. So they increase their charges to bring back their profits. That's why I propose to change the rubbish collection back to public ownership again. That cuts out the profiteering!
Why are you complaining? You have the option of returning your bottles to the retailers- that makes your bin lighter- and brings your charges down again!
 
Last edited:
Forumuser said:
I do not know a single person here who does not go to a town sooner or later. Nobody here is stuck in his or her house and just lives of food deliveries.
Housebound older folks have relations calling in who take care of their business. As I said- it is all a matter of organizing things and changing certain habits.
Rubbish collectors are in the game to make a profit. If they lose the valuable stuff like aluminium or certain plastics, their figures don't add up anymore. So they increase their charges to bring back their profits. That's why I propose to change the rubbish collection back to public ownership again. That cuts out the profiteering!
Why are you complaining? You have the option of returning your bottles to the retailers- that makes your bin lighter- and brings your charges down again!
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter who is running the collections, €15 million worth of material that was funding kerbside collection has gone to funding Re-turn.
The money has to come from somewhere. In a public system, increased LPT or lower spending elsewhere OR in a private system, increased collection charges.
But if that's how you feel, strange you don't propose for Re-turn to be brought into public ownership? Or was that implicit in your post?

So as I've already explained:
People who were recycling responsibly, putting items in green bin are now hit on the double - the time\hassle of returning items, and what seems an inevitable increase in bin charges. We already had kerbside collection of recyclables, many of the countries who introduced this scheme in the past did so before that was in place.

And I don't have the option of returning bottles to "the retailers". Many retailers are not in the scheme.
So what I have is the option of returning the items to some retailers, hoping the machines work at the time I'm there, and the valid item is accepted.

There should be more options to return, the size exemption should have been left at its original, and more in line with other countries.
There should be return machines, including bulk machines at council collection sites. Again, this is done in other countries with the scheme.
If a machine is out of order for more than 30 minutes, then the shop should have to take manual returns, as is done in other countries.

I think we should have looked more into integrating kerbside collection into the scheme.
But if we have to have this scheme not involving kerbside collection, it should be in line with best international practice, not the knockoff version of it we've been given here.
 
Re-turn into public ownership? Great idea!
The scheme is certainly suffering form teething problems. I noticed umpteen times machines being out of operations. In one shop I developed the habit of going straight into the managers office to point that out- just to get on his nerves.
As I said- this scheme is around for donkeys years in many countries- with and without kerbside collection.
Putting machines into council collection points? Good idea. But that would mean you need to pay people- aka council workers- who take care of those machines. And you need sheltered places to set up the machines- an open council yard won't do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leo
Leo said:
Don't you also generally have council collection points in urban areas in close proximity to shops with longer opening hours?
Click to expand...
When it comes to Mayo, there are collection points for stuff near Newport and Ballina, both in the middle of nowhere. That is all. This not an option.
 
Forumuser said:
Re-turn into public ownership? Great idea!
The scheme is certainly suffering form teething problems. I noticed umpteen times machines being out of operations. In one shop I developed the habit of going straight into the managers office to point that out- just to get on his nerves.
As I said- this scheme is around for donkeys years in many countries- with and without kerbside collection.
Putting machines into council collection points? Good idea. But that would mean you need to pay people- aka council workers- who take care of those machines. And you need sheltered places to set up the machines- an open council yard won't do.
Click to expand...
'This' scheme is not. Some form of this scheme is.
We've no excuse for teething problems, precisely because we can see the examples of those other countries.
Very deliberate decisions were taken around exemptions, manual returns - despite those examples.
You shouldn't have to hassle the manager, that should have been in the scheme regulations, and enforced.

The council operation of the machine would be funded just as the retail ones are funded, they get a certain rate per item.
If it is so important to bring in this scheme to meet EU targets, so we don't get fined... to not involve bulk collections at council sites (e.g. by charities, sports groups) is inexcusable.
 
The Government can't pretend the loss of revenue to the waste companies is a surprise to them.
Submission as part of the public consultation from Repak to the Dept of the Environment, November 2020:

"The general view of the waste industryis DRS is a significant threat to their businesses. A hybrid model could alleviate some of the concerns which the waste industry has in relation to the perceived negatlve impact,which DRS may have, on the current kerbside collection system.
At any rate the hybrid model would, minimise lost revenue to the waste industry and provide an alternative service provision which the waste industry could provide and receive the financial reward."

Further evidence the 'consultation' was no such thing.
 
This whole scheme has been badly thought out. How many 1 litre or 2 litre plastic bottles litter our streets ? I dont believe I have ever seen even one and yet these are the volumes mainly used for home consumption. I'm OK with smaller plastic bottles (<=500ml) and cans being included in the scheme but large bottles ? Why ? Surely >90% were already going into the green bin and keeping the waste companies profitable.
 
Flybytheseat said:
This whole scheme has been badly thought out. How many 1 litre or 2 litre plastic bottles litter our streets ? I dont believe I have ever seen even one and yet these are the volumes mainly used for home consumption. I'm OK with smaller plastic bottles (<=500ml) and cans being included in the scheme but large bottles ? Why ? Surely >90% were already going into the green bin and keeping the waste companies profitable.
Click to expand...
It's not just about littering which is thankfully relatively rare. Many people just throw everything into the general waste bin which goes to landfill. This scheme aims to nudge them to return the bottles so they can be recycled.
 
arbitron said:
It's not just about littering which is thankfully relatively rare. Many people just throw everything into the general waste bin which goes to landfill. This scheme aims to nudge them to return the bottles so they can be recycled.
Click to expand...
Surely there is a better way to stop this happening than enforcing unnecessary environmentally damaging car trips on the the 90% of the compliant public not to mention higher waste collection charges etc. I think the green agenda people need to use their brains as in this case common sense is clearly devoid. I don't recall ever hearing a public service communication / advert campaign encouraging people not to throw 1 Litre and 2 Litre bottles into their black bins !
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top