Returning cans and plastic bottles

[Leo]

People who had been paying for waste collection service as a whole, because of the increased prices, cancel the service.

Can you point to evidence of that? What waste providers have increased costs? So far all I've heard are Repak warning that increased charges would come, just like they did when they were obliged to make composting bins available to all customers.

If people are cancelling waste collection services then what are they doing? Without a registered waste collector, people are subject to inspection and are obliged t provide evidence of appropriate disposal. With litter levels dropping significantly since the scheme came in, it would suggest that whatever they are now doing is somehow much more effective than the collection option.

"It was always expected to have an impact"
Was it?

Of course, it has in other countries, why not here? The consultation process also included submissions calling this out as a negative to the model they chose to go with.

They didn't care if consumer groups objected to the scheme on that basis. The scheme was coming in, by hook or by crook.

Something had to be done to address a failing system. What is your proposal for an alternative?

 

[odyssey06]

I don't see any benefit to society by setting policy based on the idea of keeping this cohort happy.

By all means increase resources to tracking down fly tippers and increase the fines.

The crux of the issue is not price but the quantity of waste. The ultimate aim in order of importance is reduce, reuse recycle. We've gotten hung up here on the last point. Higher bin charges might help with the first two points.

While there is a balance to be struck between what's fair and equitable across society, ultimately the polluter has to pay or what hope of meaningful change.

I was addressing the previous points. Whether they are happy or not is beside the point. It is how people respond to higher bin charges and if you don't think it will lead to some people cancelling and improperly disposing of rubbish, you're not paying attention to Ireland 2024.
In urban areas I have seen household waste bags being put in public bins. Neighbours who put out no bins and seem to be visited by seagulls at regular times.

The polluter doesn't pay if they are burning rubbish. Or dumping it in a ditch. Or a public refuse bin.
So higher bin charges aren't going to help, and may even have the opposite consequence.
The laws against such things are worth the paper they are written of, negligible enforcement here. Just as there's negligible enforcement of breaches of the Re-turn regulations.

The polluter doesn't pay when you have huge numbers of retailers, who are supplying the 'polluting' products, exempt from even having to take back the items properly.
Re-turn is not about reducing the quantity of waste. It is run by beverages companies and the very producers of the 'polluting' products.
Its funding is even based on a certain % of items not being returned, so they keep the deposit!

So "the polluter pays" is dubious in theory, and in practice backfires.

 

[Forumuser]

I was addressing the previous points. Whether they are happy or not is beside the point. It is how people respond to higher bin charges and if you don't think it will lead to some people cancelling and improperly disposing of rubbish, you're not paying attention to Ireland 2024.

The polluter doesn't pay if they are burning rubbish. Or dumping it in a ditch. Or a public refuse bin.
So higher bin charges aren't going to help, and may even have the opposite consequence.
The laws against such things are worth the paper they are written of, negligible enforcement here. Just as there's negligible enforcement of breaches of the Re-turn regulations.

The polluter doesn't pay when you have huge numbers of retailers, who are supplying the 'polluting' products, exempt from even having to take back the items properly.
Re-turn is not about reducing the quantity of waste. It is run by beverages companies and the very producers of the 'polluting' products.
Its funding is even based on a certain % of items not being returned, so they keep the deposit!

So "the polluter pays" is dubious in theory, and in practice backfires.

I have not noticed any dumped rubbish in my area for a number of years. There was no increase either since the reduction of the return scheme.
It is virtually impossible to use public refuse bins- they all got fitted with an extremely small opening to prevent people from using them for their own household rubbish.
Folks cancelling their rubbish collection still need to prove what service they are using to dispose their rubbish in a proper way- so your assumption is just that.
I did not notice any burning of rubbish either. And if it would happen, some neighbour would call the guards at once!
The polluter is the consumer. There is no other one involved. Not even the producer. Without the consumers the producers would have no market and would not produce.
Yes- the polluter is ME and YOU!

As I said- some people have huge difficulties to change and adapt to new realities....

 

[Leo]

It is virtually impossible to use public refuse bins- they all got fitted with an extremely small opening to prevent people from using them for their own household rubbish.

Exactly, the LA's have the authority to call to anyone who dumps an official waste collector and the householder must prove proper handling if waste or face a hefty fine. It's also an offence to dump household waste in a public bin, and people do occasionally get fined for that. I can't see people who are too lazy to bring a few containers with them when they're going to the shops going about making many more trips with small quantities of waste finding public bins to dump it in.

Time will tell what impact this scheme will have, Eurostat aren't going to skew the metrics to save anyone's blushes so we'll have evidence well before Re-Turn's license is up for renewal. I'm not aware of any waste suppliers having put up their prices despite knowing this was coming for years. So their representative body jumping on the negative press to further their cause is at best opportunist, at worst price signalling.

 

[demoivre]

Bord na Mona significantly increased their pay per lift bin charges at the end of last year, the cost of lifting the recycling bin alone increased by 86% . It is now cheaper for us to pay a yearly flat fee for waste, recycling and the compost bin.

I could legitimately deal with waste without a bin collection as my local recycling centre accepts food waste for composting and there's a local garage that has one of those machines that you can pay per bin bag to dispose of rubbish.

Still annoys me that I'm being penalised for putting cans and plastic bottles in the recycling bin though.

 

[Leo]

Still annoys me that I'm being penalised for putting cans and plastic bottles in the recycling bin though.

Same, it's more hassle and while far from perfect I was reasonable good at separating and ensuring only the appropriate materials went in each bin. It's an unfortunate downside of living as part of a society, wee pay for the failings of others. Just as we pay higher insurance premiums because of a minority who steal and invent or exaggerate injuries seeking compensation.