Public Service Pay Agreement

[z107]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

How will the savings be made, if not from Public Sector pay cuts or efficiencies?

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

It's in everyones interests that a deal was done. We need a functioning public service, not one crippled by industrial action. The Government has said it won't touch pay and conditions if savings are made. It is now to the Unions and their members to deliver those savings. The least they deserve is the opportunity to make them before we start calling it a wasted opportunity. The difference this time compared to previous times is that people outside Ireland are watching. There is no room for fudging issues or gamesmanship. There has be impact on the bottom line of the public finances.
For the sake of everyone, I hope they succeed despite my skepticism that they wont.

+1.
It is everyone's interest to have an efficient public service. The government has now given an incentive for public sector workers to accept reforms that will reduce costs. It won't happen overnight but if the deal is accepted at least it will bring some stability.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

How will the savings be made, if not from Public Sector pay cuts or efficiencies?

Public sector pay bill accounts for approx 1/3 of government spending so whatever savings are required , I assume pay bill will have to contribute 1/3 to this. The government have also flagged they will introduce new taxes to increase revenue.

 

[z107]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

The government have also flagged they will introduce new taxes to increase revenue.

Could it be the case that instead of reducing public sector pay, everyone will have to pay higher taxes?
The unrepresented will suffer, in other words?

 

[csirl]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

This should stop any strikes until the next budget.
The government as about nine months now to break the unions or outsource and privatise as much as possible.

There will be more public sector wage cuts in the next budget. There has to be or it'll be bankrupt country time.

When will we have the next Budget?

The maximum vote the Government will have after the autumn by-elections, if all independents, greens, ex-PDs etc. stay on board, will be 84. If it drops below 83 we have an election. We seem to average 2 resignations/deaths per annum. Law of averages suggests we are in the last year of the current Government. There's a very good chance that the first and only act of the 3 newly elected TDs will be to vote on the dissolution of the Dail!!!

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Could it be the case that instead of reducing public sector pay, everyone will have to pay higher taxes?
The unrepresented will suffer, in other words?

I don't think the government was ever going to try and reduce the deficit just by spending cuts or just by tax increases, rather than a mixure of both.

 

[Staples]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Could it be the case that instead of reducing public sector pay, everyone will have to pay higher taxes?
The unrepresented will suffer, in other words?

So are you saying that public sector workers should absorb ALL required suffering?

 

[z107]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

So are you saying that public sector workers should absorb ALL required suffering?

I don't believe anyone should suffer apart from the government, and those directly responsible for the depression.
It does seem to me that the private sector is being hit much, much harder, with huge job losses, bust companies and swinging pay cuts that won't be reversed. Why are the private sector currently absorbing all of the suffering?

I can't afford to pay any more tax. Really, I don't want to be forced to hand over yet more of my money to FF and their cronies. It looks like that's what is going to happen if the government backs down.

 

[liaconn]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

+1.
It is everyone's interest to have an efficient public service. The government has now given an incentive for public sector workers to accept reforms that will reduce costs. It won't happen overnight but if the deal is accepted at least it will bring some stability.

Where is the incentive in this deal? A commitment not to 'cut pay' does not mean that they can't impose further 'levies' instead. In addition, the fact that the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Acts of 2009 can be invoked as a cop out for anything else, makes this deal a bit meaningless for Public Servants.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Where is the incentive in this deal? A commitment not to 'cut pay' does not mean that they can't impose further 'levies' instead. In addition, the fact that the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Acts of 2009 can be invoked as a cop out for anything else, makes this deal a bit meaningless for Public Servants.

Whats the alternative? Continue WTR until December and get our pay cut again? Would you not rather see savings by reform instead?

Any specific time frame to restore pay would never be accepted because they would have to reverse the social welfare cuts. I don't expect to get pay cut back anytime soon but if my pay is not cut further I can live with it.

 

[z107]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Would you not rather see savings by reform instead?

What will this 'reform' entail?
Remember, it'll have to save a huge amount of money.

 

[Shawady]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

What will this 'reform' entail?
Remember, it'll have to save a huge amount of money.

Well less people working in the public sector for a start.
Flexibility between departments would mean areas that are not busy could release staff to busier areas instead of replacing people that retire.
I don't think it would be simple or happen overnight but both the government and the unions suggested there was potential large savings without cutting pay.

I don't work in the health sector so I can't comment on some of the other proposals regards shift work and allowances.

 

[Staples]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

I can't afford to pay any more tax

Regetably, affordability has nothing to do with it. I couldn't afford a 20% cut in my net pay in the last 10 months but I got it anyway. I've swallowed the medicine (reluctantly) and didn't go on strike. While I accept the economic straits in which the country finds itself, I feel I've done my bit thank you very much.

And by the way, if tax increases occur, public servants get hit as well.

 

[z107]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Well less people working in the public sector for a start.
Flexibility between departments would mean areas that are not busy could release staff to busier areas instead of replacing people that retire.
I don't think it would be simple or happen overnight but both the government and the unions suggested there was potential large savings without cutting pay

Cut jobs instead of pay?

 

[Deiseblue]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

How will the savings be made, if not from Public Sector pay cuts or efficiencies?[/

I think we are going to see additional direct and indirect taxation including property tax and hopefully we will see the reintroduction of a wealth tax.

I think that there is a strong possibility that the PRSI ceiling will be abolished , however the advent of Mr. Lenihan's social contribution may render the question of PRSI reform moot.

 

[Firefly]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Cut jobs instead of pay?

I can see this happening via early retirement options and those retirees not being replaced. Sadly, this will mean reduced services for the public.

If it was me I'd target the managment grades in a big way. The unions constantly argue that front line staff are essential and lower paid - fair enough. The real issue IMO is reducing costs in non-front line staff particularly the management grades.

 

[Husker]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

It's in everyones interests that a deal was done. We need a functioning public service, not one crippled by industrial action. The Government has said it won't touch pay and conditions if savings are made. It is now to the Unions and their members to deliver those savings. The least they deserve is the opportunity to make them before we start calling it a wasted opportunity. The difference this time compared to previous times is that people outside Ireland are watching. There is no room for fudging issues or gamesmanship. There has be impact on the bottom line of the public finances.
For the sake of everyone, I hope they succeed despite my skepticism that they wont.

+1

Sensible post, Sunny. There is now responsibility on all sides to implement change and efficiency at all levels of the public service. Although details are sketchy, this is exactly what those advocating change were asking for - lower numbers, greater efficiencies, performance-related increments and promotions. As usual here in relation to the unions, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

[ashambles]

Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement

Early retirement is as expensive as keeping people on, in the short to medium term.

If someone is close to a full pension, and the people taking this option usually are, there's the the 150% tax free lump sum and the pension net of tax levies etc. is only 20-30% cheaper to pay than the full salary.

On top of that you've to consider if the person is healthy, relatively young and wealthy then it's likely that a significant chunk of the pension will be spent abroad and outside of Ireland's tax net.

In some cases the retirees will reduce the already scarce amount of available jobs in the private sector (e.g. gardai with security roles etc.).

Voluntary redundancy would/will be even worse, it'll end up being seized by people who're only a few years from retirement.

It's daft, but from the clowns who brought us benchmarking what can we expect.

 

[thedaras]

Is it just me,or has there been very little comment/analysis of the pay agreement in the media today?

Am I being cynical in saying that the timing was in the governments/unions favour?

Am I right in saying that the public service ( up to 35k )are now not included in any future paycuts (until 2014 )therefore the 3bn will have to come from the private sector?

Would anyone else like to be in this position?

If so how could they get this guarantee from their employers?

ie; anyone earning up to 35k a year,should they now be exempted from any paycut untill 2014?

 

[Husker]

I think the logic is that savings made will, in the first instance, benefit those earning less than 35k per year - not that they're immune from pay cuts for four years. If there are no savings made, or worse, then pay cuts will continue. Feel free to sensationalise, though.