Public Service Pay Agreement
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Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
A complete defeat for the union's if you ask me. What was all the work to rule for etc. if they agree to this? Being a member of a union is pointless - no money back and ah sure we will have a review next year and in future year's. The Government have got what they want - you have to hand it to them.
A complete defeat for the union's if you ask me. What was all the work to rule for etc. if they agree to this? Being a member of a union is pointless - no money back and ah sure we will have a review next year and in future year's. The Government have got what they want - you have to hand it to them.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
+1
Like most of these agreements it could be great or it could be useless. It will come down to the ability and competence of senior management and ministers and what level of obstructionism the unions engage in. To date ability and competence by those at the top has been in very short supply and the unions have generally managed to stymie change while holding onto pay increases.
+1
Like most of these agreements it could be great or it could be useless. It will come down to the ability and competence of senior management and ministers and what level of obstructionism the unions engage in. To date ability and competence by those at the top has been in very short supply and the unions have generally managed to stymie change while holding onto pay increases.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
The protests IMO were to prevent further cuts in the 2010 budget.
I presume the gov bond rates will start heading back up now again as the further 3bn in cuts the gov promised for 2010 can't be achieved (we've heard so much about transformation & better working practices that I won't hold my breath).
The protests IMO were to prevent further cuts in the 2010 budget.
I presume the gov bond rates will start heading back up now again as the further 3bn in cuts the gov promised for 2010 can't be achieved (we've heard so much about transformation & better working practices that I won't hold my breath).
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
I knew Purple and his band of merry men wouldn't be overly happy with this deal. Therefore from my perspective as an ordinary union member it must be a good
I knew Purple and his band of merry men wouldn't be overly happy with this deal. Therefore from my perspective as an ordinary union member it must be a good
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
Well as long as you, and other "ordinary union members" all right that's the main thing, so what if it damages the rest of the country. I'll give the unions that; they are consistent, they don't care who they hurt or what damage they do as long as their interests are served.
I knew Purple and his band of merry men wouldn't be overly happy with this deal. Therefore from my perspective as an ordinary union member it must be a good
Well as long as you, and other "ordinary union members" all right that's the main thing, so what if it damages the rest of the country. I'll give the unions that; they are consistent, they don't care who they hurt or what damage they do as long as their interests are served.
Y
Yorrick
Guest
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
The Unions are beaten. This is just a smokescreen to fool their membership.
The Govt. do seem intent on pushing reform and reduction in numbers.
The Unions are beaten. This is just a smokescreen to fool their membership.
The Govt. do seem intent on pushing reform and reduction in numbers.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
It's early days. It has to be accepted by members, which I hope it is.
I think there is positives in it for both sides.
I hope it is not portrayed in the media as 'the government bottles it' or 'the unions were defeated'. It is potentially is an agreement that could transform the public service, which can only be a good thing.
It's early days. It has to be accepted by members, which I hope it is.
I think there is positives in it for both sides.
I hope it is not portrayed in the media as 'the government bottles it' or 'the unions were defeated'. It is potentially is an agreement that could transform the public service, which can only be a good thing.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
The Unions went into these talks knowing that there was nothing to be gained bar a freeze on future paycuts. So in terms of what they could have got, they got everything they could have hoped for.
Whether or not these changes get voted through by the membership is another thing entirely. A lot of public servants would prefer another paycut over a longer core working week, reduction in family friendly conditions and mandatory redeployment, depending on their circumstances.
And of course you’ll always have the die-hards who will insist on the previous pay cuts being reimbursed which could never happen.
This whole process could have been a master stroke by the government if anyone believed they were capable of it. They agree a deal that the Union members reject, then proceed with more pay cuts knowing that the Unions can’t complain about it.
M
The Unions went into these talks knowing that there was nothing to be gained bar a freeze on future paycuts. So in terms of what they could have got, they got everything they could have hoped for.
Whether or not these changes get voted through by the membership is another thing entirely. A lot of public servants would prefer another paycut over a longer core working week, reduction in family friendly conditions and mandatory redeployment, depending on their circumstances.
And of course you’ll always have the die-hards who will insist on the previous pay cuts being reimbursed which could never happen.
This whole process could have been a master stroke by the government if anyone believed they were capable of it. They agree a deal that the Union members reject, then proceed with more pay cuts knowing that the Unions can’t complain about it.
M
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
+1 Mouldy. I think the unions had played the money card too heavily. The unions went after pay and the Gov have now blindsided them with conditions. IMO, this is best illustrated by the year extension to the retirement. It is great for those nearing retirement but will just mean the remaining staff will be moved around more and work longer hours.
Personally, I would take a 20% cut not to have extended core hours and the risk of being sent to Ballygobackwards.
But overall it would appear to be a fair solution. The unions save face with existing union members and the Gov gets the promise of reform. Now to see how it is applied.
+1 Mouldy. I think the unions had played the money card too heavily. The unions went after pay and the Gov have now blindsided them with conditions. IMO, this is best illustrated by the year extension to the retirement. It is great for those nearing retirement but will just mean the remaining staff will be moved around more and work longer hours.
Personally, I would take a 20% cut not to have extended core hours and the risk of being sent to Ballygobackwards.
But overall it would appear to be a fair solution. The unions save face with existing union members and the Gov gets the promise of reform. Now to see how it is applied.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
I would view the deal as a victory for commonsense. I certainly don't see it hurting the country. An end to industrial action and an agreement on real change in the public sector has to be good news for all, even the cranks. The Government have given away nothing really as I don't think they were going to cut public sector wages directly again anyway (the abandonment of the agreed increased in the Towards 2016 deal, the pension levy and pay cut were not insubstantial). The next budget probably wouldn't have and now won't target any particular group but will target everyone through a re-jig of the PAYE system.
I would view the deal as a victory for commonsense. I certainly don't see it hurting the country. An end to industrial action and an agreement on real change in the public sector has to be good news for all, even the cranks
. The Government have given away nothing really as I don't think they were going to cut public sector wages directly again anyway (the abandonment of the agreed increased in the Towards 2016 deal, the pension levy and pay cut were not insubstantial). The next budget probably wouldn't have and now won't target any particular group but will target everyone through a re-jig of the PAYE system.Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard Blair horan say on several occasions that he would settle for nothing less than a return of the wage prior to the paycuts to the lower paid public servants by the end of this year.
This has not happened.....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard Blair horan say on several occasions that he would settle for nothing less than a return of the wage prior to the paycuts to the lower paid public servants by the end of this year.
This has not happened.....
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
The only savings that will come about as a result of this deal will be those arising from a reduction in headcount.
The benchmarking fiasco over the last ten years has shown that the public service is institutionally incapable of delivering any form of meaningul reform. And before any public servants start listing the meaningless 'concessions' they've made in the last decade, I'm talking about genuine, measurable reforms that impact on the State's bottom line.
The only savings that will come about as a result of this deal will be those arising from a reduction in headcount.
The benchmarking fiasco over the last ten years has shown that the public service is institutionally incapable of delivering any form of meaningul reform. And before any public servants start listing the meaningless 'concessions' they've made in the last decade, I'm talking about genuine, measurable reforms that impact on the State's bottom line.
Re: Public Sector Pay Agreement
I was like totally proved wrong.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=128915&page=2
Those at the top retain their Xmas presents whilst those at the bottom might get a couple of quid in a couple of years if they reform their work practices and if the economy doesn't deteriorate futher.
In fact the extension of "retire on full benefits" date further benefits those at the top as they pull up the ladder on the way out.
I was like totally proved wrong.
http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=128915&page=2
Those at the top retain their Xmas presents whilst those at the bottom might get a couple of quid in a couple of years if they reform their work practices and if the economy doesn't deteriorate futher.
In fact the extension of "retire on full benefits" date further benefits those at the top as they pull up the ladder on the way out.